CODENAME: MORNINGSTAR Kickstarter Launched - and it's for PATHFINDER!

Trapdoor Technologies has launched its Kickstarter for Codename: Morningstar. As expected, the software is for the Pathfinder RPG, with other systems being supported later. It has a number of modules - home, character, adventure, campaign, party, library, and forge - and is designed for mobile devices and laptops. They're looking for a whopping $425,000 - one of the largest RPG Kickstarters I've ever seen! - and are looking at an April 2015 release date. Of course, this software was originally designed for D&D 5th Edition before the relationship between Trapdoor and WotC came to an end, so many folks will have seen beta versions of the software when it was configured for that game. It's more than a character generator, though -- "Players will be able to quickly create and manage characters, track the progress of their adventures, send secret messages, roll virtual dice and more. GM’s will be able to manage adventures, track encounters, share maps and notes as well as organize large scale campaigns all through a cleverly designed mobile interface." And later comes the "sharing" part -- "Through the Forge, Game Designers can create adventures and campaigns, share them with their friends or publish them in our Library for the entire world to enjoy." You can already sort of see how some of that sharing will work, as some pledge levels for the Kickstarter include additional content (in this case an adventure). Click here for the Kickstarter!

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[Alarian]

I'm in currently but in all honesty I don't know if I'll stay in through the end. I grabbed up a early bird spot before reading everything and hearing it's currently Pathfinder only is a no go for me. I already have invested in Hero Lab and Realm Works, and was planning on using this for 5th edition. Hopefully they have something good to announce before the end on this.

 

[Jester David]

I want to get excited about this but I can't.

I already have HeroLabs for Pathfinder, so a new PF related character builder is unnecessary.
And I was utterly unimpressed by the web "beta" (read "alpha"). Not just the staggering amount of bugs but seeming lack of progress, as simple errors went unfixed for the entire beta.
I imagine a lot of the $425k asking price will be the cost to get the wealth of Pathfinder data into the builder, which is a staggering amount of content at the moment. And if the builder doesn't contain the splatbooks it's not particularly useful. Going with the PRD and promising Pathfinder (instead of OGL and generic) might hurt Morningstar more than it helps.


What I am interested in and curious about is the Forge, which is the big selling feature of the product but seems to be the one being held back. And it's implied in the rewards that there'll be some kind of subscription service for the Forge, as some of the rewards say "Forge access for a year." Yeah, I'm not playing a monthly fee. Everything else, the character builder and digital play around the table... that's just a distraction.
The price is likely the killer. The asked for funds are also super high. And $50 is steep for the necessary GM price. I imagine access to the advanced modules requires that (but the kickstarter page is vague). And getting my players to all chip in $25 is unlikely. $150 for a table to participate? Not going to happen.

 

[Gundark]

Pafthinder? Eh, I'll pass.

This.

But at least for them I hope they get funded. I'm sceptical though

 

[God]

I've been drinking, but I think this would make laugh sober.

 

[Newtonian]

Pafthinder? Eh, I'll pass.

Started to pledge, but then noticed that it is Pathfinder/d20 focused. If the product was launching with broader support for systems like White Wolf, 5e, Gurps, Numenera and others, then it would be tempting. Too narrowly focused, and the goal money goal is too ambitious. Honestly might be better to cut your losses now, than to invest another half million in a market others have already beat you to.

Good luck guys. I'm not in to pathfinder or your price tag, but I absolutely hope you succeed, and provide the hobby with a kick-butt electronic tool in the process.

I'm in currently but in all honesty I don't know if I'll stay in through the end. I grabbed up a early bird spot before reading everything and hearing it's currently Pathfinder only is a no go for me. I already have invested in Hero Lab and Realm Works, and was planning on using this for 5th edition. Hopefully they have something good to announce before the end on this.

This.

But at least for them I hope they get funded. I'm sceptical though

We're starting with the PRD, but that's not where we'll end up. If WotC ends up expanding the OGL to include 5e, then we'll support whatever we can there as well. We're in discussions with others as well.

But ultimately, we believe it's more about the campaign setting and adventure you're running than the rules. That's why GM's have so many house rules. They want to do what's fun--not necessarily what the book says they have to do. It's our belief that at the end of the day, players don't get excited about rules. They get excited about the adventures they're running.

 

[Newtonian]

Is the price point on this not quite steep? $50 for the player and GM content, when your main competitor Herolab is only $30. And having to pay monthly for the developer tools feels like double dipping when you are already going to be making commission off of the sale of user generated content. I also have no idea what any of the "Modules" are specifically going to do, you really need to break down EXACTLY what features they will contain.

The GM tools will offer a bit more of a comprehensive set of features centered around a digital book paradigm. This will be shown in more detail in the coming weeks. If we had to do a feature to feature comparison between CN:MS and Lone Wolf's products, CN:MS would actually have features similar to both Realm Works and Hero Lab, but with digital books added to the mix. For what you're getting at $50...it's extremely cheap. Especially considering that to buy into the core books for D&D 5e, you're spending $180.

For the Forge, we're still evaluating exactly how the pricing model will work. Subscription seems like the best option, being that the tools will need to continue to be supported. Look at it like a game engine toolset. Unreal 4 or Crysis charge a monthly fee for people to build games using them. Then they get a % of the sales of the games when they get released. This is actually a pretty common business practice.

As far as a features breakdown, keep an eye on us. We'll be drilling down in more detail . We already released an FAQ answer today that gives a bit more detail on how the Player, Game Master, and Game Designer breaks down.

 

[Newtonian]

I want to get excited about this but I can't.

I already have HeroLabs for Pathfinder, so a new PF related character builder is unnecessary.

We're way way more than a character builder. It's not about the individual features...it's about all the individual features packaged together.

And I was utterly unimpressed by the web "beta" (read "alpha"). Not just the staggering amount of bugs but seeming lack of progress, as simple errors went unfixed for the entire beta.

Yea. We made some mistakes there. But, we learned some valuable lessons. I would encourage you to talk to someone who worked on the iOS version. It had a much better example of the level of quality we were striving for, even if the web version didn't show it.

I imagine a lot of the $425k asking price will be the cost to get the wealth of Pathfinder data into the builder, which is a staggering amount of content at the moment. And if the builder doesn't contain the splatbooks it's not particularly useful. Going with the PRD and promising Pathfinder (instead of OGL and generic) might hurt Morningstar more than it helps.

What I am interested in and curious about is the Forge, which is the big selling feature of the product but seems to be the one being held back. And it's implied in the rewards that there'll be some kind of subscription service for the Forge, as some of the rewards say "Forge access for a year." Yeah, I'm not playing a monthly fee. Everything else, the character builder and digital play around the table... that's just a distraction.
The price is likely the killer. The asked for funds are also super high. And $50 is steep for the necessary GM price. I imagine access to the advanced modules requires that (but the kickstarter page is vague).

We're still evaluating the pricing structure for the Forge, but the most reasonable one seems to be subscription. The reason for this is that it's a supported toolkit that will undergo updates and improvements ongoingly. Look at Unreal 4, Unity 3d, CryEngine... all of them require a subscription to use. It's a standard model for a tool like this.

I should note that as far as I know...DDI is the only reason people hate subscription models. Let's be clear. They did it wrong. They didn't let you keep your content when you discontinued...they didn't let you export, they didn't let you do a bunch of stuff. We are not them. Our subscription model will be very flexible and friendly.

And getting my players to all chip in $25 is unlikely. $150 for a table to participate? Not going to happen.

Well, keep an eye on us . Maybe by the end of the 30 days, you'll see if we're worth it.

 

[lkj]

I should note that as far as I know...DDI is the only reason people hate subscription models. Let's be clear. They did it wrong. They didn't let you keep your content when you discontinued...they didn't let you export, they didn't let you do a bunch of stuff. We are not them. Our subscription model will be very flexible and friendly.

I think I know what you're getting at, but this isn't really accurate. You can download all the Dragon and Dungeon content and keep it. You can also export any characters and monsters you make to pdf's. I found the DDI very useful and well worth the subscription price.

However, if you mean that you didn't have offline tools (once they moved to the web) and that you couldn't keep using them after the subscription ended (without cheating)-- then yes. That's true.

Please not-- I'm not trying to join in the chorus of critiques. I, like others, hope you succeed and would love to eventually see the toolset you describe usable for 5e. Just couldn't quite let that statement pass unexamined.

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[Newtonian]

I think I know what you're getting at, but this isn't really accurate. You can download all the Dragon and Dungeon content and keep it. You can also export any characters and monsters you make to pdf's. I found the DDI very useful and well worth the subscription price.

However, if you mean that you didn't have offline tools (once they moved to the web) and that you couldn't keep using them after the subscription ended (without cheating)-- then yes. That's true.

Please not-- I'm not trying to join in the chorus of critiques. I, like others, hope you succeed and would love to eventually see the toolset you describe usable for 5e. Just couldn't quite let that statement pass unexamined.

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Fair enough. I'll admit that I often saw DDI mentioned when people talked about how much they hated subscription. What would you say is the reason people hate subscription models so much?

 

[lkj]

Fair enough. I'll admit that I often saw DDI mentioned when people talked about how much they hated subscription. What would you say is the reason people hate subscription models so much?

I don't know that I can really say. Or even whether most people hate them. It's possible that DDI turned some people off for one reason or another. But I also think some folk just don't like subscription models as a matter of principal. Much the way some feel that after buying the print book that having to pay for the electronic version is unfair (being 'made' too pay for the same content twice). I think the basic idea is that if you buy something that you shouldn't have to buy it again. So if someone buys your Forge module they feel shouldn't have to pay again to keep it.

I don't really agree of course, depending on the product. It's just the difference between an access model and an ownership model, and you have to decide whether it's worth it to you or not. Nothing worth getting upset over. It's up to the company to convince you that paying periodically for access is worth your while. Was totally worth it for me with DDI, but YMMV. And of course the many hiccups and crashes on the way to where DDI finally ended up certainly didn't help.

Shrug. Anyway, there you have my baseless speculation. For whatever that's worth. Time for me to go to bed. And once again, I'm hopeful for your vision and I really am rooting for your success.

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