D&D 5E If WotC is outsourcing official 5E material to 3PP, What is WotC working on?

Let's not get crazy with the royal "We"...nothing would make me happier that a sweet, sweet book of new 5e crunch.
Fair enough. I don’t want it, and I think it would be a mistake in terms of attracting new players and a new audience to the game if it is seen to have rules bloat. In my view, the game cannot afford to keep appealing to an ever ageing, existing fan base anymore - so even if these fans tend to prefer to buy crunchy books, the game developers still need to look at the bigger, long term picture.
 

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TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
Fair enough. I don’t want it, and I think it would be a mistake in terms of attracting new players and a new audience to the game if it is seen to have rules bloat. In my view, the game cannot afford to keep appealing to an ever ageing, existing fancies anymore - so even if these fans tend to prefer to buy crunchy books, the game developers still need to look at the bigger, long term picture.
A fair point. I just don't think there is a long-term picture. Selling to aging fans will keep you in business for a few more decades, and it's pointless to try to plan out anywhere beyond that. If the long-term outlook isn't good for TTRPGs, that's a cultural change, not something developers can market their way out of.
 

A fair point. I just don't think there is a long-term picture. Selling to aging fans will keep you in business for a few more decades, and it's pointless to try to plan out anywhere beyond that. If the long-term outlook isn't good for TTRPGs, that's a cultural change, not something developers can market their way out of.
My view is that there is a market out there for D&D - but it’s currently seen as an antiquated game from the past compared to online gaming and the like.

However, recent reports suggest that tabletop gaming as a whole has had a real surge in popularity in recent years. People, including young people I think, are starting to look at alternative games and pastimes away from computers and online media.

I think D&D can be sold as a ‘Classic’ seminal and historically significant game - that is timeless in its appeal. Moreover, if the brand can sell through TV, movies, books and other media - the original game can still tap into these markets by sourcing curious new fans of these shows. I think our community needs to be more confident about selling it to new generations, and not go into its own shell.
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
I think D&D can be sold as a ‘Classic’ seminal and historically significant game - that is timeless in its appeal. Moreover, if the brand can sell through TV, movies, books and other media - the original game can still tap into these markets by sourcing curious new fans of these shows. I think our community needs to be more confident about selling it to new generations, and not go into its own shell.
That I agree with. I just think it's important to sell what the game IS, and not market to what the developers think emerging consumers WILL want. It is antiquated compared to online games, and that's a main part of its charm.

But I also think it's wrong to assume that what people want is a simple game. The market drivers for RPGs have always been crunchy games.
 

But I also think it's wrong to assume that what people want is a simple game. The market drivers for RPGs have always been crunchy games.

Part of this is supply-driven. To use an example, Fiasco is a great game and one I adore. It's also a simple game. It comes in a small paperback book. There's even a supplement (another paperback book). But this is a hobby product. Bully Pulpit are going to struggle to sell me a third book to do with Fiasco. They need to go right back to the drawing board for an entire new game - while WotC can sell shelves full of books for any edition.

That said, Evil Hat and Fate are currently making a run at selling a fairly light RPG as the base for a product line. Also Eden Studios and MWP both gave it a go.
 

That I agree with. I just think it's important to sell what the game IS, and not market to what the developers think emerging consumers WILL want. It is antiquated compared to online games, and that’s a main part of its charm.
Total agreement.

But I also think it’s wrong to assume that what people want is a simple game. The market drivers for RPGs have always been crunchy games.
I think there was some research done for 3rd edition or possibly 3.5 that having too many rulebooks was indeed a turn off for casual players. The pre-existing market of fans always clamour for more and more rulebooks, but each rulebook that is added reduces the overall potential market down because casual gamers find it more of a barrier to entree. Sure, there is a clear entree point with the Starter Set - but if a casual gamer sees, say 10 chunky rulebooks on the shelf then that gamer may say I don’t fancy buying into all of that - too many rules to learn! Therein lies the issue - it’s the law of diminishing returns.
 


TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
Part of this is supply-driven. To use an example, Fiasco is a great game and one I adore. It's also a simple game. It comes in a small paperback book. There's even a supplement (another paperback book). But this is a hobby product. Bully Pulpit are going to struggle to sell me a third book to do with Fiasco. They need to go right back to the drawing board for an entire new game - while WotC can sell shelves full of books for any edition.
Oh, I agree. The personal preferences of players aren't going to be in agreement with the market preferences of players, simply because complex, crunchy games support a different kind of buyer. So you end up with 1000s of lightly supported simple games, and a single digit number of widely supported complex games.

And of course, only larger game design companies have the resources to support a market that wants a steady supply of crunch, which further limits the number of possibly supported crunchy games as well.

Basically, there's numerous factors in play which will drive the market so that the best-selling game is always a crunch-heavy, supplement supported game.
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
I think there was some research done for 3rd edition or possibly 3.5 that having too many rulebooks was indeed a turn off for casual players. The pre-existing market of fans always clamour for more and more rulebooks, but each rulebook that is added reduces the overall potential market down because casual gamers find it more of a barrier to entree. Sure, there is a clear entree point with the Starter Set - but if a casual gamer sees, say 10 chunky rulebooks on the shelf then that gamer may say I don’t fancy buying into all of that - too many rules to learn! Therein lies the issue - it’s the law of diminishing returns.
Well, sure, but what's the alternative? You make a marketing push during the release of a new edition precisely because the barrier of entry is at its lowest point, and then you collect the money from the dedicated fans as the "new edition" window closes. Then you reboot, and start anew.

I think there's this idea that a Platonic version of D&D can be developed, put in a box, and then sell as an evergreen product, like Monopoly or Settlers of Catan. I simply don't think that's feasible, and that the market for D&D has more in common with serialized releases like Magic.
 

Nikosandros

Golden Procrastinator
I thought that the Adventurer's Guide was supposed to have some things like new races, classes, spells, an backgrounds in it. That sounds like rules to me. I don't think Wizards wants to outsource writing rules to someone else.
I also think that the book is as you describe, but - at least on the upcoming releases page here - it is listed as being produced by Sasquatch. I must say that I was surprised when the book was announced precisely for the reasons that you mention. I wonder if anybody has more information on this.
 

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