D&D 5E Anyone Using the Optional Initiative from the DMG?

theRogueRooster · Jan 6, 2015

I really like the concept of the popcorn method and may introduce it into my campaign.

As a thought experiment: I wonder if a little uncertainty could be added to the system by adding in the concept of momentum: if your action involves a d20 roll and you hit or succeed with it, your side keeps momentum and you choose the next character to act as normal. If you miss/fail the roll for your action, your side loses momentum and the DM chooses the next character to act. If your action involves multiple rolls (e.g. extra attacks or multiple spell targets), only the first roll counts for determining momentum.

Could be fun!
-tRR

Rune · Jan 6, 2015

Interesting concept, I'll run it by my players. Although I would change it from the first roll to the last roll that determines whether you maintain or not.

steeldragons · Jan 6, 2015

I use [what shall heretofore be referred to as] Sancrosanct's method.

Rolling every round, so the order changes up at least a little for that chaotic combat goodness.

Question: When figuring the individual PC totals, are folks adding in Dex. mod's?

It makes sense to me from an immersion standpoint, but does that give unfair advantage to rogue characters/rogues always (or by a noticeably large margin) going first? Is that acceptable to the immersion/make sense anyway?

OR would/does a straight # off the die, no modifiers, work better? Use the Dex mod in cases of a tie?

Tormyr · Jan 6, 2015

pukunui said:
As I said, I've been using one for years, and it doesn't speed things up in any appreciable way. Maybe we're using it wrong?

Try skipping them when they are not ready. After 1 or two times of that, they will know what to do when their turn comes up. That coupled with the other little things to speed up play creates a positive feedback loop. Without time to be distracted, the players are ready to go, which means there is less delay for the next person to become distracted, and so on. I have 7 players at my table, and we can get through a round in a couple of minutes. With the fast play, everyone is more engaged, and you can see the players start to lean into the table more.

We have started dragging again, so I need to give them a nudge toward speeding things up at our next play session.

guachi · Jan 6, 2015

For what it's worth, the Speed Factor initiative variant doesn't add dexterity modifiers but does use it as a tie breaker.

While it doesn't say so in the rules, I think it's implied that factors such as... whatever the feat that adds 5 to initiative... should count as well as class abilities that grant half proficiency like the Champion or Bard abilities. It's certainly a way for the Champion fighter to overcome the -4 to using a heavy, two-handed weapon and makes the Champion cooler. And anything that makes the Champion cooler is good in my book.

In other words, initiative, in my world using these rules, is still a dexterity ability check it's just that the dexterity mod is always a 0. Otherwise the Champion can't ever get a benefit.

trentonjoe · Jan 6, 2015

Tormyr · Jan 6, 2015

steeldragons said:
I use [what shall heretofore be referred to as] Sancrosanct's method.

Rolling every round, so the order changes up at least a little for that chaotic combat goodness.

Question: When figuring the individual PC totals, are folks adding in Dex. mod's?

It makes sense to me from an immersion standpoint, but does that give unfair advantage to rogue characters/rogues always (or by a noticeably large margin) going first? Is that acceptable to the immersion/make sense anyway?

OR would/does a straight # off the die, no modifiers, work better? Use the Dex mod in cases of a tie?

It would seem to me to make sense for the "normal" initiative calculation to be used each round. High dex characters are more nimble and better able to adapt to the changing battlefield, etc.

For me, the normal, cyclical initiative order is good and the easiest to adjudicate (spells and effects that hold until a certain creatures next turn especially). One option I could see (which would add more complexity would be to keep the effect active until the same initiative count in the next round (i.e. the monk's stunning strike staying at the monk's initiative of 10 into the next round even though the monk gets a 15 in the next round). It would stabilize the duration of the effects somewhat, but it would add a level of complexity.

Something like the DMG's dynamic initiative based on actions seems like it would be best handled with a spreadsheet, which not everyone takes to the gaming table. Type in initiative. Add their actions for the next round, and it spits out an ordered list of the resulting initiative. (Seems like I have another idea for the downloads section).

steeldragons · Jan 6, 2015

trentonjoe said:
...

I'm not saying they shouldn't have the advantage...or that it doesn't make sense that they should. I just am concerned it might be too much of one/unfair.

Tormyr said:
It would seem to me to make sense for the "normal" initiative calculation to be used each round. High dex characters are more nimble and better able to adapt to the changing battlefield, etc.

Yeah. It makes sense. I'll have to just see how it works out.

aramis erak · Jan 6, 2015

If you want more flexibility, but not the frequent "Y'all go — We go" of popcorn... there is a halfway.

FFG's Star Wars, everyone rolls initiative, and sets a slot for their side. Then, each time a slot is hit, one character of the owning side goes who hasn't yet gone this round.

EG, Jim, Steph, and Peter roll 17, 14, and 4 for initiative. The GM rolls for 7 monsters, getting 3, 6, 9, 16, and 19. The slots go NPC1, PC1, NPC2, PC2, NPC3, NPC4, PC3, NPC5. While Jim rolled hot, Peter's playing the death-dealing heavy fighter... so peter will probably use PC1 in turn 1. Steph's playing the rogue, and takes PC2, because she now can use her bonus damage against the target Peter engaged. And Jim ends the round with burning hands, as he's being ganged up upon....

Vael · Jan 6, 2015

I've used Popcorn initiative for 13th Age and Fate, and quite like it. But I've shied away from it in 5e, just because of how easily PCs can dispatch monsters. As I'm getting a better feel for the system, I will probably reintroduce it. I like that it means I only check initiative for "who goes first" and it does stop combat from feeling too routine.

D&D 5E Anyone Using the Optional Initiative from the DMG?

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