D&D 5E Anyone Using the Optional Initiative from the DMG?

[Hriston]

For what it's worth, the Speed Factor initiative variant doesn't add dexterity modifiers but does use it as a tie breaker.

It doesn't say that you don't add your dexterity modifier, so I'd assume, since initiative is defined elsewhere as a dexterity check, that the dexterity modifier still applies. That's how I'd do it anyway.

Another variation I'm thinking about adding to this is to break up Extra Attack over multiple initiative counts by requiring a separate initiative roll for each attack. edit: I realize that this kind of nerfs the fighter classes, and I'm also not sure how to handle Action Surge in this kind of system. But since all actions are declared ahead of time I think it would be as simple as a separate roll for each action.

 

[Rune]

Okay, those of you who've used popcorn...

What's to keep the group from picking one order that's tactically advantageous most of the time and just never deviating?

For instance, the group I'm running consists of a paladin, a fighter, a wildshape-focused druid, and a cleric. As things stand, if the cleric rolls a high initiative, she usually readies an action rather than going immediately; she likes going late in the round.

Something like 90% of the time, they're just going to go fighter-druid-paladin-monster-cleric. (The fighter often wins initiative, since she has the relevant feat.)

I like the popcorn idea if it actually does vary and require tactical thinking, but--at least for the first round of every combat--I don't think it would vary with this group.

In general, the point of popcorn initiative (from the players' perspective) is that it does allow for standard tactical routines to be reliably employed. Deviation will generally be situational, based on the tactics they want to use and whether or not one of them gets initiative. Even then you'll probably see all but one of the side with initiative go first.

To keep things interesting, you've really got to give the players reasons to switch their tactics up.

Haven't used it myself, but my understanding of popcorn initiative is that when you have the initiative you get to pick who has it next, so if your group is fighting multiple monsters, break up the monsters' initiative so you can throw it back to the cleric before all the monsters have had a turn. That way the rest of the monsters go at the end of the round and get to award themselves initiative for the beginning of the next round. If it's just one monster, though, you're probably right. It would be very easy to get stuck with the same initiative order from encounter to encounter.

This isn't a bad way to go, but only works if you don't allow characters to delay.

 

[Hriston]

This isn't a bad way to go, but only works if you don't allow characters to delay.

I don't think there's a way to delay your initiative in 5e unless I missed something, or if you're talking about the DM skipping your turn.

 

[Rune]

I don't think there's a way to delay your initiative in 5e unless I missed something, or if you're talking about the DM skipping your turn.

I think you're right, by the book, but popcorn initiative isn't by the book, either. I think it would be a hard sell (to my players, anyway) if I didn't allow them to delay.

 

[Nebulous]

I created a new houserules thread here if anyone is interested....

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?403922-5th-Edition-Book-of-Houserules

 

[Hriston]

I think you're right, by the book, but popcorn initiative isn't by the book, either. I think it would be a hard sell (to my players, anyway) if I didn't allow them to delay.

Now, I'm not too familiar with other editions beside 1e AD&D, so forgive me if I don't quite grasp what it is to delay, but in terms of popcorn initiative, I think it goes against the spirit of the system to force the initiative back onto the goblins (in this example) so that the PCs can lay claim to the last turn and get control of who gets initiative in the next round. What's to prevent the goblins from doing the same thing? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. It is, however, this kind of metagaming situation that popcorn initiative sets up, where it becomes all about who gets the last turn, that would make it unlikely for me to use it.

 

[Rune]

Delay (per 3.x and 4e) is simply a means of exiting the initiative order and re-entering later. It was almost certainly removed from 5e for simplicity's sake.

I disagree that it goes against the spirit of popcorn initiative. Rather, I think it feeds into it; a lot of the appeal is in arranging turn order to make tactics more reliable.

If you want more risk for the players, you could tweak a couple of things, of course. [MENTION=4521]theRogueRooster[/MENTION]'s momentum rule mentioned upthread could work well.

Or, take a page from Marvel Heroic and reserve the right to pay inspiration to choose who goes next for them. If you choose a character, that's who gets the inspiration. If you choose an opponent, the character who would have gone gets it. If the character already has inspiration, they get nothing, but may spend it to wrest initiative back from the DM.

 

[Hriston]

Delay (per 3.x and 4e) is simply a means of exiting the initiative order and re-entering later. It was almost certainly removed from 5e for simplicity's sake.

I disagree that it goes against the spirit of popcorn initiative. Rather, I think it feeds into it; a lot of the appeal is in arranging turn order to make tactics more reliable.

OK, just trying to understand here, so we have the cleric and the last goblin both delaying their turns because neither of them wants to be second to last. What makes one of them go? If neither of them do, it seems like they should both forfeit their turn and then what?

 

[Rune]

Personally, I would call for opposed Wisdom (Patience) checks. Winner gets to choose who goes first.

 

[steeldragons]

Personally, after about 10 seconds of that nonsense, I would say the cleric's turn is forfeit. The goblin, also, simply forgoes attack.

Roll initiative for the next round. Carry on.