Unearthed Arcana Psionics Hits Unearthed Arcana

Jester David · Jul 9, 2015

GMforPowergamers said:
that is very harsh, they just completed the single largest playtest and used it to put out the best selling edition... they may have had some hickups over the years, but I think you are vastly overselling it...

Pitching a an amazing game, a no-hitter, doesn't change your career average or send your team to the playoffs. 5e is amazing and I'm happy with how they're doing errata, but that's just one succes.

Jester David · Jul 9, 2015

Dire Bare said:
No they don't. At least, not from my perspective. Is the history of D&D littered with products that were started, but abandoned? Sure. Has WotC, and TSR before them, started down one path and then later changed direction? Sure.

The same is true about every other major company, both in and out of the RPG business. Situations change and companies need to adapt. If a particular product is released enthusiastically, but later proves not to be meeting its goals, why would any company choose to continue supporting it? When you cancel a product, inevitably you will disappoint customers who really liked it, but if they are the few to the many, then it's the right call. There are folks out there who LOVED "New Coke".

This makes WotC neither incompetent, inconsistent, uncaring, or deserving of a negative reputation. We're bordering on fan entitlement here, where we like a product so much we feel an ownership over it that we don't truly have. We demand that we get what we want and on our timetable, and when that doesn't happen, we get upset . . . justified or not.

I have a feeling that you and I wouldn't argue over the specifics, there certainly have been plenty of abandoned projects over D&D's 40+ years of history. But I think it's an optimist vs pessimist kind of disagreement (not that it boils neatly down to black and white terms). Half glass full, half glass empty type of situation.

I have confidence that Mearls and co. will continue to deliver fantastic D&D content to me for years to come. There will be projects started but later abandoned, there will be changes in direction, there will be decisions made that don't match up with my personal wants and needs . . . but I am very OK with that!

Zen and the art of D&D fandom is a book somebody needs to write, IMO!

The fact it's different people helps. A new start. Not that Mearls began well when they "play tested" free content from the cancelled book Heroes of Sword and Spell (aka the PHB1 classes rebalanced and reformatted for Essentials) and never updated or uploaded revised versions.

I'm not super pessimistic. But the fact remains we've been burned before and we don't know the specifics of how/ when/ if we'll see revisions. I would not be surprised to see things handled well, but I'm also being cautious that this content might end up abandonware. So I'm trying not to get super invested in anything I see in Unearthed Arcana.

Chryssis · Jul 9, 2015

okay so i finally made it through all 28 pages of quibbling about once sentence that may or may not mesh well with eberron, and people complaining that the spell point variant system is overpowered (because these mystics just use the DMG variant spell point rules). I wont comment on the eberron thing, however for the spell points I think a major comparison is being missed.
People are saying Mystics are given too much versatility due to spell points, a spell slot full caster can only cast x spells where a mystic can cast their low level spells all day. That is true! however a wizard has access to 34? first level spells and a dozen cantrips while a mystic has access to 3 and a single pseudo cantrip so while they may be able to do it all day long they can do one very specific thing while a wizard can do several different things during the day. This is the exact same tradeoff you see between wizards > Sorcerer +/- = Bard > warlock > mystic.

Based on the given progression of disciplines (2 active 1 passive) and 3 available by 5th level it would seem logical that each tier has 2-3ish disciplines so a max level mystic will have 2-3 options to choose from per equivalent spell level (each discipline has a low mid and top end ability for each tier) that is very restrictive.

There has also been a lot of talk of multiclassing, since concentration is required for practically all abilities mystic is only really viable as a multiclass to rogue/fighter unless they get later abilities that trump normal spellcasting concentration classics ala fly, haste, hex and then it is at the cost of bonus actions.

overall i quite like it.

Sword of Spirit · Jul 9, 2015

Chryssis said:
okay so i finally made it through all 28 pages of quibbling about once sentence that may or may not mesh well with eberron,

I skipped most of the pages, but if you are talking about the Far Realm fluff--it isn't an objection that is specific to Eberron by any means. Sorry if I'm responding to something you weren't saying, but I just wanted to make sure that was abundantly clear. The Far Realm objection is much broader.

Fralex · Jul 9, 2015

Has anyone tried out the Mystic yet? I wanna know what it's like!

CapnZapp · Jul 9, 2015

Sadrik said:
My point was not that if a creative DM looked at an RPG and thought they could change something then they could do it. It was talking about accessibility of change. How easy do you want the interlocking parts of the game to be? How difficult? Do you want to make a bunch of things that look like spells, but are not?

So your point is that psionics inherently have to use different rules than magic. I don't agree with that. Mechanically psionics can use the same rules whether Mearls and co want to actually make the rules different or the same is just a style choice. Not an inherent difference, like you cannot have similar mechanics because they are so different. Example: divine magic and arcane magic could be very different, howerver they use the same mechanics. I feel psionics are similar in this regard, they can bolt on a whole different subsystem, however they could evoke all of the same theme through, all ready established mechanics.

I agree, However they cannot go back and rewrite the DMG. I would say it would be simpler to use slots and then point out that the power points can be incorporated from the DMG. No overlap and no convolution.

I believe most players feel the extra rules text is worth the effort. And so does Wotc

CapnZapp · Jul 9, 2015

EzekielRaiden said:
I gotta say, I find it humorous (to say the least) to see that there doesn't seem to be a position on these playtest rules that doesn't have people with diametrically opposite opinions. Love the new flavor, despise the new flavor. Hate the Far Realm link, love the Far Realm link. Love the mechanics, hate the mechanics.

It definitely sounds like WotC has their work cut out for them.

That is probably why they want a new take. They know psionics have always been a deeply divisive area in D&D that pisses off nearly as many as it pleases

Sword of Spirit · Jul 9, 2015

CapnZapp said:
That is probably why they want a new take. They know psionics have always been a deeply divisive area in D&D that pisses off nearly as many as it pleases

Yeah, it sounds like they are trying to give it mainstream D&D appeal. That will be difficult. Potentially doable, but difficult. The main part of it will be finding the parts that bug people the most, then taking those out, then replacing them with something that the people who liked them will also like, while injecting something new that says to the others, "Hey, you never liked psionics before, but now you'll love them!" and not having the new thing backfire on them.

I'm A Banana · Jul 9, 2015

So I keep coming back to this: if the mystic wasn't "psionic," if it was just some new class, if all the references to "psionic" were scrubbed and something arbitrary put in (I dunno, "soulmelds"!), would it be something I wanted to play.

And I think it does not have very strong flavor. Even with the tentacles.

It's a character who does mind-control and body-control, but without "spells." Its fluff as a "mystic" is shared by monks and wizards and sorcerers and clerics and druids (and anyone with the Hermit background...), and it doesn't do much to distinguish itself. Its mechanic is "I conentrate, and stuff happens," which is distinctive, but doesn't tie into a separate fiction.

We need a better story on this. I don't see the conflict, the motivation, like I do with most of the existing 5e classes. Even the far realm stuff doesn't do much to change that - what, am I against this otherworldly energy that makes me a superhuman being? Or is it something I should be supporting?

Mechanics seem OK (distinct enough, just too powerful on this iteration). Story is weak.

CapnZapp · Jul 9, 2015

Sword of Spirit said:
Yeah, it sounds like they are trying to give it mainstream D&D appeal. That will be difficult. Potentially doable, but difficult. The main part of it will be finding the parts that bug people the most, then taking those out, then replacing them with something that the people who liked them will also like, while injecting something new that says to the others, "Hey, you never liked psionics before, but now you'll love them!" and not having the new thing backfire on them.

Think of it this way: if they DIDN'T believe it was doable, they would leave psionics untouched.

The current Wotc is determined to only publish books that "everyone" will buy. Either that, or no book at all.

Unearthed Arcana Psionics Hits Unearthed Arcana

Jester David

Hero

Jester David

Hero

Chryssis

Explorer

Sword of Spirit

Legend

Fralex

Explorer

CapnZapp

Legend

CapnZapp

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Sword of Spirit

Legend

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich

CapnZapp

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