The New and Improved Fighter and six subclasses

Sadrik

First Post
Here is my stab at a fighter that I think works. This version is complete with all missing subclass features. My design goals/what I have done:
  • Specialize the subclasses more and provide more of them.
  • Include the maneuvers in each fighter subclass.
  • Subclasses grant specialized maneuvers.
  • Action surge and second wind features into maneuvers.
  • Add in some features from other classes into the maneuvers.
  • Change a few fighting styles, per some of my previous ideas/house rules.
  • Provide more fighting styles from other classes.
  • Tie hexblade casting with it's maneuvers somehow. (This is an area that still does not quite fit)
  • Subclass gained at level 1.

Fighter
A human in clanging plate armor holds her shield before her as she runs toward the massed goblins. An elf behind her, clad in studded leather armor, peppers the goblins with arrows loosed from his exquisite bow. The half-orc nearby shouts orders, helping the two combatants coordinate their assault to the best advantage.
A dwarf in chain mail interposes his shield between the ogre’s club and his companion, knocking the deadly blow aside. His companion, a half-elf in scale armor, swings two scimitars in a blinding whirl as she circles the ogre, looking for a blind spot in its defenses.
A gladiator fights for sport in an arena, a master with his trident and net, skilled at toppling foes and moving them around for the crowd’s delight—and his own tactical advantage. His opponent’s sword flares with blue light an instant before she sends lightning flashing forth to smite him.
All of these heroes are fighters, perhaps the most diverse class of characters in the worlds of Dungeons & Dragons. Questing knights, conquering overlords, royal champions, elite foot soldiers, hardened mercenaries, and bandit kings—as fighters, they all share an unparalleled mastery with weapons and armor, and a thorough knowledge of the skills of combat. And they are well acquainted with death, both meting it out and staring it defiantly in the face.

Well-Rounded Specialists
Fighters learn the basics of all combat styles. Every fighter can swing an axe, fence with a rapier, wield a longsword or a greatsword, use a bow, and even trap foes in a net with some degree of skill. Likewise, a fighter is adept with shields and every form of armor. Beyond that basic degree of familiarity, each fighter specializes in a certain style of combat. Some concentrate on archery, some on fighting with two weapons at once, and some on augmenting their martial skills with magic. This combination of broad general ability and extensive specialization makes fighters superior combatants on battlefields and in dungeons alike.

Trained for Danger
Not every member of the city watch, the village militia, or the queen’s army is a fighter. Most of these troops are relatively untrained soldiers with only the most basic combat knowledge. Veteran soldiers, military officers, trained bodyguards, dedicated knights, and similar figures are fighters.
Some fighters feel drawn to use their training as adventurers. The dungeon delving, monster slaying, and other dangerous work common among adventurers is second nature for a fighter, not all that different from the life he or she left behind. There are greater risks, perhaps, but also much greater rewards—few fighters in the city watch have the opportunity to discover a magic flame tongue sword, for example.

Creating a Fighter
As you build your fighter, think about two related elements of your character’s background: Where did you get your combat training, and what set you apart from the mundane warriors around you? Were you particularly ruthless? Did you get extra help from a mentor, perhaps because of your exceptional dedication? What drove you to this training in the first place? A threat to your homeland, a thirst for revenge, or a need to prove yourself might all have been factors.
You might have enjoyed formal training in a noble’s army or in a local militia. Perhaps you trained in a war academy, learning strategy, tactics, and military history. Or you might be self-taught—unpolished but well tested. Did you take up the sword as a way to escape the limits of life on a farm, or are you following a proud family tradition? Where did you acquire your weapons and armor? They might have been military issue or family heirlooms, or perhaps you scrimped and saved for years to buy them. Your armaments are now among your most important possessions—the only things that stand between you and death’s embrace.

Quick Build
You can make a fighter quickly by following these suggestions. First, make Strength or Dexterity your highest ability score, depending on whether you want to focus on melee weapons or on archery (or finesse weapons). Your next-highest score should be Constitution. Second, choose the soldier background.

Class Features
As a fighter, you gain the following class features.

Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d10 per fighter level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d10 (or 6) + your Constitution modifier per fighter level after 1st

Proficiencies
Armor: All armor, shields
Weapons: Simple weapons, martial weapons
Tools: None
Saving Throws: Strength, Constitution
Skills: Choose two skills from Acrobatics, Animal Handling, Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, and Survival

Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
(a) chain mail or (b) leather, longbow, and 20 arrows
(a) a martial weapon and a shield or (b) two martial weapons
(a) a light crossbow and 20 bolts or (b) two handaxes
(a) a dungeoneer’s pack or (b) an explorer’s pack

Fighting Style
You adopt a particular style of fighting as your specialty. Choose one of the following options.
Armor Defense
While you are wearing armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC.
Dueling
When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls with that weapon.
Great Weapon Fighting
When you are wielding a melee weapon with two hands, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.
Marksmanship
You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls you make with ranged missile weapons.
Martial Arts
When you are wielding any short sword or simple weapon you gain an extra unarmed attack that deals 1d4 bludgeoning damage and can use DEX or STR.
Shield Defense
When you are wielding a shield you, you gain a +1 bonus to AC.
Throwing Master
You gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls you make with ranged thrown weapons.
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.
Unarmored Defense
While wearing no armor, your AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Wisdom or your Constitution modifier.

Action Surge
You can push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment. You gain a number of action surges equal to 2 + 1 for every three fighter levels.
You must finish a short or long rest to regain your action surges again.

Combat Maneuvers
Activating a Maneuver: Spend your reaction and an action surge to...
Maneuvers known: You know a number of maneuvers equal to the number of action surges you have.
Combat Superiority: +1d4 (at level 10 +1d6, at 13 +1d8, and at 17 +1d10)
Saving throw: 8 + Proficiency + STR or DEX

Maneuvers
Disarming Attack: Disarm
Evasive Footwork: Add bonus to AC
Feinting Attack: Advantage on your next attack against the creature
Lunging Attack: add reach
Menacing Attack: Frighten
Parry: DR
Precision Attack: Bonus to attack
Pushing Attack: Push someone
Trip Attack: knock target prone

Martial Archetype
You choose an archetype that you strive to emulate in your combat styles and techniques. Your archetype grants you features at 3rd level and again at 7th, 10th, 15th, and 18th level.

Know Your Enemy
At 2nd level you gain this feature as PHB page 73-74.

Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 6th, 8th, 12th, 14th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can’t increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

Extra Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
The number of attacks increases to three when you reach 11th level in this class and to four when you reach 20th level in this class.

Additional Fighting Style
At 9th level, you can choose a second option from the Fighting Style class feature. You can’t take a Fighting Style option more than once.

Martial Archetypes
Different fighters choose different approaches to perfecting their fighting prowess. The martial archetype you choose to emulate reflects your approach.

Champion
The archetypal Champion focuses on the development of raw physical power honed to deadly perfection. Those who model themselves on this archetype combine rigorous training with physical excellence to deal devastating blows.

Champion Maneuvers
Indomitable: You can spend two action surges and use your reaction to reroll a saving throw that you fail. If you do so, you must use the new roll.
Riposte: Attack a creature that missed you
Second Wind: On your turn, you can spend an action surge and use your reaction to gain temporary hit points equal to your combat superiority.
Surge Attack: On your turn, you can spend one action surge to gain an additional attack on top of your regular number of attacks.

Improved Critical
Beginning when you choose this archetype at 3rd level, your weapon attacks score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20.

Remarkable Athlete
Starting at 7th level, you can add half your proficiency bonus (round up) to any Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution check you make that doesn’t already use your proficiency bonus.
In addition, when you make a running long jump, the distance you can cover increases by a number of feet equal to your Strength modifier.

Feral Instinct
At 10th level, as PHB page 49

Superior Critical
Starting at 15th level, your weapon attacks score a critical hit on a roll of 18–20.

Primal Champion
At 18th level, as PHB page 49

Defender
The archetypal Defender focuses on the development of skill in defense. Those who model themselves on this archetype combine rigorous training with physical excellence to deal devastating blows.

Defender Maneuvers
Indomitable: You can spend two action surges and use your reaction to reroll a saving throw that you fail. If you do so, you must use the new roll.
Protection: When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction and spend a surge to impose disadvantage on the attack roll. You must be wielding something to interdict attacks such as a weapon or shield.
Retaliation: As PHB page 50
Second Wind: On your turn, you can spend an action surge and use your reaction to gain temporary hit points equal to your combat superiority.

Danger Sense
At 3rd level, as PHB page 48

Uncanny Dodge
At 7th level, as PHB page 96

Evasion
At 10th level, as PHB page 96

Undying Sentinel
At 15th level, as PHB page 87.

Survivor
At 18th level, you attain the pinnacle of resilience in battle. At the start of each of your turns, you regain hit points equal to 5 + your Constitution modifier if you have no more than half of your hit points left. You don’t gain this benefit if you have 0 hit points.

Duelist
The archetypal Duelist focuses on the development of raw physical power honed to deadly perfection. Those who model themselves on this archetype combine rigorous training with physical excellence to deal devastating blows.

Duelist Maneuvers
Evasive Footwork: Add bonus to AC
Goading Attack: Get them to attack you
Retaliation: As PHB page 50: attack a creature that damaged you
Surge Attack: On your turn, you can spend one action surge to gain an additional attack on top of your regular number of attacks.

Additional Fighting Style
At 3rd level, you can choose a second option from the Fighting Style class feature.

Fast Movement
Starting at 7th level, as PHB page 49.

Brutal Critical
Starting at 10th level, as PHB page 49.

Assassinate
Starting at 15h level, as PHB page 97.

Death Strike
Starting at 18th level, as PHB page 97.

Hexblade
The archetypal Hexblade focuses on the development of magic and physical power. Those who model themselves on this archetype combine rigorous training with physical excellence to deal devastating blows.

Hexblade Maneuvers
Eldritch Strike: Disadvantage on their next save against your spell
Indomitable: You can spend two action surges and use your reaction to reroll a saving throw that you fail. If you do so, you must use the new roll.
Spell Knowledge: Learn two new spells. Can be selected multiple times.
Surge Attack: On your turn, you can spend one action surge to gain an additional attack on top of your regular number of attacks.
War Magic: cast a spell when you attack

Spellcasting
At 3rd level, as PHB page 75 except you learn 3 starting spells and 2 cantrips. To learn more spells select the Spell Knowledge maneuver.

Weapon Bond
At 7th level, as PHB page 75.

Pact of the Blade
At 10th level, as PHB page 107-108.

Arcane Charge
At 15th level, as PHB page 75.

Sword Mage
At 18th level, you gain proficiency in all saving throws.

Slayer
The archetypal Slayer focuses on the development of raw physical power honed to deadly perfection. Those who model themselves on this archetype combine rigorous training with physical excellence to deal devastating blows.

Slayer Maneuvers
Retaliation: As PHB page 50: attack a creature that damaged you
Second Wind: On your turn, you can spend an action surge and use your reaction to gain temporary hit points equal to your combat superiority.
Surge Attack: On your turn, you can spend one action surge to gain an additional attack on top of your regular number of attacks.
Sweeping Attack: damage a second creature

Reckless Attack
At 3rd level, as PHB page 48.

Improved Critical
At 7th level, your weapon attacks score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20.

Favored Enemy
At 10th level, as PHB page 91 except gain additional enemies at levels 15 and 18.

Superior Critical
Starting at 15th level, your weapon attacks score a critical hit on a roll of 18–20.

Savage
At 18th level, you are now resistant to slashing, piercing, and bludgeoning damage.

Warlord
The archetypal Warlord focuses on the development of raw physical power honed to deadly perfection. Those who model themselves on this archetype combine rigorous training with physical excellence to deal devastating blows.

Warlord Maneuvers
Commander's Strike: Make another attack on your behalf
Distracting Attack: give another advantage that you attack
Maneuvering Attack: Move an ally
Rally: Add temp HP to ally

Student of War
At 3rd level, as PHB page 73.

Combat leader
At 7th level, you grant allies who can hear you advantage on initiative rolls, so long as you are not surprised.

Battlefield Superiority
At 10th level, enemies within your reach are considered in difficult terrain.

Relentless
At 15th level, as PHB page 74.

Battle Master
At 18th level, enemies cannot score critical hits on you or your allies within 30 feet.
 
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Quickleaf

Legend
[MENTION=14506]Sadrik[/MENTION] What are your design goals? Knowing that helps when reading a new class. It's especially important to explain upfront WHY you're redesigning an existing class, or WHAT problems you want to solve.

For example, you appear to be replicating the battlemaster's superiority dice as part of the core fighter, but then you differentiate combat superiority and action surges. But you're using action surges differently than the core PHB. I'm having trouble making sense of it, but maybe if your goals were clearly articulated it would make more sense.
 

steeldragons

Steeliest of the dragons
Epic
I am similarly confused.

I am unclear why every archetype listed has the same list of maneuvers. Also not sure why things like "Calming or Cutting Words, Evasive Footwork, Commander's Strike, etc...etc...many more" would appear in a list following a description of the Champion saying how he's all about the physical strength and landing blows as hard as possible.

But kudos, of course, for the work and time put into this. It's a good jumping off point.
 

Sadrik

First Post
My goal is pretty benign. Remix the class to a way I like it. I wanted to pull in some class features from other classes and give each subclass a list of maneuvers. Ultimately, in this iteration, I would change the other following classes to get combat maneuvers as well: barbarian, monk, paladin, ranger, and rogue. In this way, each martial class would access maneuvers which would function like selectable spells for them. Fighter, barbarian and paladin would get a few, monk ranger and rogue a lot. So anyway these are a few of the things I am thinking about when doing this class...
 

Li Shenron

Legend
I had the feeling that WotC originally meant to do something like you are doing, i.e. have all Fighters learn maneuvers, and have subclasses access different lists of them.

What they settled for however was (1) fold maneuvers into one subclass so that only interested players will get them, (2) one single list so that those players freely choose how much 'Warlordy' or 'Slayery' etc. they want to be.

A concept similar to point (2) happened with the Totem Barbarian and elemental Monk -> don't have to choose all the abilities of one single animal/element, you can do so if you want a more focused character concept, but you can also mix'n'match them.

So IMO what you are doing goes back to what possibly was the first design principle. It strengthens the identity of archetypes by reducing character creation flexibility. It's neither good or bad, it depends on the tastes.

My goal is pretty benign. Remix the class to a way I like it. I wanted to pull in some class features from other classes and give each subclass a list of maneuvers. Ultimately, in this iteration, I would change the other following classes to get combat maneuvers as well: barbarian, monk, paladin, ranger, and rogue. In this way, each martial class would access maneuvers which would function like selectable spells for them. Fighter, barbarian and paladin would get a few, monk ranger and rogue a lot. So anyway these are a few of the things I am thinking about when doing this class...

This I wouldn't do. You know where this is going...

You are taking pretty much all the stuff which is Fighter-only (you merged Action Points, Second Wind, and Indomitable with Maneuvers) and making them available to all the other martial classes.

This will kill the Fighter class. It may still have a quantitave edge over the other classes (more Action Points, move Maneuvers), but it won't help, it will be the same 'generic' class that ended up being in 3e, i.e. the kind of class you take a few levels only to boost some numbers of your real class, or that someone takes as a single class only when she's clueless or dislikes all other specific classes.

Do so if you like, but once you strip the Fighter of all her unique stuff, I'd then rather remove it entirely from the game.
 

Sadrik

First Post
I had the feeling that WotC originally meant to do something like you are doing, i.e. have all Fighters learn maneuvers, and have subclasses access different lists of them.

What they settled for however was (1) fold maneuvers into one subclass so that only interested players will get them, (2) one single list so that those players freely choose how much 'Warlordy' or 'Slayery' etc. they want to be.

A concept similar to point (2) happened with the Totem Barbarian and elemental Monk -> don't have to choose all the abilities of one single animal/element, you can do so if you want a more focused character concept, but you can also mix'n'match them.

So IMO what you are doing goes back to what possibly was the first design principle. It strengthens the identity of archetypes by reducing character creation flexibility. It's neither good or bad, it depends on the tastes.
Yes, I agree. There was a strong push for a mechanically valid simple fighter. In this it takes a different approach, it says a simple fighter is not an option. You get a little complexity in each subclass (if maneuvers are considered complex - I am not convinced they are).


This I wouldn't do. You know where this is going...

You are taking pretty much all the stuff which is Fighter-only (you merged Action Points, Second Wind, and Indomitable with Maneuvers) and making them available to all the other martial classes.

This will kill the Fighter class. It may still have a quantitave edge over the other classes (more Action Points, move Maneuvers), but it won't help, it will be the same 'generic' class that ended up being in 3e, i.e. the kind of class you take a few levels only to boost some numbers of your real class, or that someone takes as a single class only when she's clueless or dislikes all other specific classes.

Do so if you like, but once you strip the Fighter of all her unique stuff, I'd then rather remove it entirely from the game.

I would not grant every maneuver to every class. My concept here is to provide specialized maneuver lists at the subclass level (perhaps too much). Certainly the list of maneuvers would be controlled at the class level. By giving spells to nearly every other class it does not necessarily kill the wizard? I think not. In this case, if they are given to other classes then this will not kill the fighter. I feel maneuvers can cover class specific abilities.

To spin this discussion in a little different way. I am also very interested in trying to develop the various subclasses into something that can be selected for any class. Not sure how my class fits that bill, perhaps for a different thread. Concept being that if you wanted an otherworldly patron you could be a fighter. If you wanted to be an assassin and a barbarian you could. If you wanted to be a devotee of the storm domain and a ranger you could. This is a difficult thing to accomplish but conceptually I think this would be amazing.
 

Sadrik

First Post
Something that occurred to me is that the fighter subclasses could each have a list of maneuvers unique to them. Then the others could be selectable by any of them. Perhaps each would have 5 maneuvers unique to them. Then all others could be available.

Example:

Warlord has:
Calming Word: As Song of Rest but temporary HP, PHB page 54.
Combat Inspiration: As Combat Inspiration, PHB page 55.
Commander's Strike
Cutting Words: As Cutting Words, PHB page 54-55.
Inspiration: As Bardic Inspiration but uses Action Surge, PHB page 53-54.

These would be synonymous with the cleric domain's spells. Cleric has all spells on their list + the addition of the domain spells. In this case fighter would have all available maneuvers and their specific subclass maneuvers as well. Of course fighter would not know all maneuvers like a cleric knows all spells. They would select from their options. I think this is the way to go. Need to go back and edit...
 

Li Shenron

Legend
I would not grant every maneuver to every class. My concept here is to provide specialized maneuver lists at the subclass level (perhaps too much). Certainly the list of maneuvers would be controlled at the class level. By giving spells to nearly every other class it does not necessarily kill the wizard? I think not. In this case, if they are given to other classes then this will not kill the fighter. I feel maneuvers can cover class specific abilities.

It didn't kill the Wizard because:

(1) Nobody was ever given the access to such wide areas of capabilities through spells as the Wizard (except the Sorcerer, but who is always just a variant). The problem is that as wide as the set of Maneuvers you can design, they will always be mostly combat tricks.
(2) If you tried to use the Wizard as a 'level-dipping class' you wouldn't keep up with higher level spells, so single-class Wizard remained a very good choice, with plenty of room for creating lots of totally different characters within the same class.
(3) No other class was really a "Wizard, plus something else", while Barbarian, Ranger and Paladin are often seen as "Fighter, plus something else".

There was one thing that killed the Wizard however, and that's prestige classes. At least in the sense that when they were available in a game, it was rare to see someone stay just a plain Wizard, exactly because prestige classes were always "Wizard, plus something else".

With the 3e Fighter the problem was, it was always more interesting to stop progressing and take another class, because anyway it didn't have anything unique to look for after Weapon Specialization.

To spin this discussion in a little different way. I am also very interested in trying to develop the various subclasses into something that can be selected for any class. Not sure how my class fits that bill, perhaps for a different thread. Concept being that if you wanted an otherworldly patron you could be a fighter. If you wanted to be an assassin and a barbarian you could. If you wanted to be a devotee of the storm domain and a ranger you could. This is a difficult thing to accomplish but conceptually I think this would be amazing.

Yes I agree, this is something I even wrote feedback about during the playtest years, saying that WotC should have tried to use a regular structure for subclasses, i.e. have the subclasses of ALL classes start at level 3 and grant benefits at the same levels. This would have made it a lot more easier to swap or even mix'n'match subclasses between classes.
 

Sadrik

First Post
What are your design goals?
To more clearly articulate my design goals/what I have done:
Specialize the subclasses more and provide more of them.
Include the maneuvers in each fighter.
Subclasses grant specialized maneuvers.
Action surge and second wind features into maneuvers.
Add in some features from other classes into the maneuvers.
Change a few fighting styles, per some of my previous ideas/house rules.
Provide more fighting styles from other classes.
Tie hexblade casting with it's maneuvers somehow. (This is an area that still does not quite fit)
Subclass gained at level 1.

I am unclear why every archetype listed has the same list of maneuvers.
This was done like this initially because I was uncertain how to proceed. I now have a clearer idea of what I want to do and it should be clear through the edits that I put up above. To summarize: each fighter knows 2 + 1 per 3 fighter levels ( so 2 to 8). Each subclass has access to learning 4 special maneuvers, the rest come from a general fighter pool of maneuvers they can learn. So a more limited access to the list of maneuvers than the standard fighter but all subclasses learn them.

It didn't kill the Wizard because:
In 5e though, the classes all pretty much have access to spells and it is a lot easier to multiclass and gain spells and power up sufficiently with them. This is unlike 3e. For martial types, I am still partial to a martial system synonymous with a spell system. Something that powers up sufficiently with multi-classing like spells. So you have Caster Levels and Martial Levels. This class does not tackle that concept clearly or well but conceptually I like it.
 

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