Horwath
Legend
it's similar to full casters getting it and it's 7 levels later.
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D&D (2024) Rogue, Thug. Homebrew subclass
- Thread starter Horwath
- Start date
UngeheuerLich
Legend
Full casters don't get 10d6 sneak attack damage. You also add an extra bonus action attack for potentially 4 attacks per round. I think this is a bit much.
I made a Brute Rogue back in 2014. Use for inspiration.
BRUTE
You concentrate your talents in the arts of intimidation and menace. Gang enforcers, mob bosses, and bullies fit this archetype, as do some members of law enforcement and detection. You complement your speed and coordination with expertise of verbal investigation and physical handling of valuable targets.
BONUS PROFICIENCIES
When you choose this archetype at the 3rd level, you gain proficiency with medium armor and the forgery kit.
RUFFIAN
Starting at the 3rd level, you can treat all one handed simple weapons which deal bludgeoning damage, such as a club mace, or unarmed strike as a finesse weapon.
KIDNAPPER
Starting at the 9th level, you gain skill at negating an enemy's senses when wrestling. When you are grappling a creature, you can use the bonus action granted by you Cunning Action to cover the creature's eyes, ears, or mouth with your hands. As long as the creature is grappled by you, the creature is blinded, deafened, or cannot speak.
In addition if the creature has a bite attack, it cannot use if until the grapple ends.
GATHER INFORMATION
At level 13, you can spend a few hours in a well populated area gathering information. After three hours of socializing, you know all the area's major and local news and the locations of important places, items, and people.
If there is a specific location, item, rumor. or person you wish to find and that information is hard to find or has a reason to be withheld, you can spend three more hours and make a Charisma (Intimidation) check against the Dexterity (Stealth) or Wisdom (Insight) of the easiest to find person who has this information to extract it.
BRUTAL ATTACK
When you reach the 17th level, you become the champion of the first strike. On the first and second round of any combat, you can attack twice instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action
BRUTE
You concentrate your talents in the arts of intimidation and menace. Gang enforcers, mob bosses, and bullies fit this archetype, as do some members of law enforcement and detection. You complement your speed and coordination with expertise of verbal investigation and physical handling of valuable targets.
BONUS PROFICIENCIES
When you choose this archetype at the 3rd level, you gain proficiency with medium armor and the forgery kit.
RUFFIAN
Starting at the 3rd level, you can treat all one handed simple weapons which deal bludgeoning damage, such as a club mace, or unarmed strike as a finesse weapon.
KIDNAPPER
Starting at the 9th level, you gain skill at negating an enemy's senses when wrestling. When you are grappling a creature, you can use the bonus action granted by you Cunning Action to cover the creature's eyes, ears, or mouth with your hands. As long as the creature is grappled by you, the creature is blinded, deafened, or cannot speak.
In addition if the creature has a bite attack, it cannot use if until the grapple ends.
GATHER INFORMATION
At level 13, you can spend a few hours in a well populated area gathering information. After three hours of socializing, you know all the area's major and local news and the locations of important places, items, and people.
If there is a specific location, item, rumor. or person you wish to find and that information is hard to find or has a reason to be withheld, you can spend three more hours and make a Charisma (Intimidation) check against the Dexterity (Stealth) or Wisdom (Insight) of the easiest to find person who has this information to extract it.
BRUTAL ATTACK
When you reach the 17th level, you become the champion of the first strike. On the first and second round of any combat, you can attack twice instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action
Cap'n Kobold
Hero
3rd level:
Gain Medium Armour and shield proficiency.
Can make a sneak attack with any weapon or unarmed strike.
You have advantage when attacking any creature that is Frightened.
You may use your cunning action to make an influence check using Intimidation, or an unarmed strike (Shove and Grapple options only.)
9th level:
You gain the following Cunning Strike options:
Intimidating blow (cost: 2d6) The target must succeed on a Charisma save or be Frightened of you until the end of your next turn.
You gain a Fighting Style feat.
13th level:
You gain the following Cunning Strike option:
Unrelenting bully (cost: 3d6) You may make an additional attack using the same action as the attack that triggered this.
Your allies have advantage making attacks or opposed ability checks against creatures intimidated or frightened by you.
Gain Medium Armour and shield proficiency.
Can make a sneak attack with any weapon or unarmed strike.
You have advantage when attacking any creature that is Frightened.
You may use your cunning action to make an influence check using Intimidation, or an unarmed strike (Shove and Grapple options only.)
9th level:
You gain the following Cunning Strike options:
Intimidating blow (cost: 2d6) The target must succeed on a Charisma save or be Frightened of you until the end of your next turn.
You gain a Fighting Style feat.
13th level:
You gain the following Cunning Strike option:
Unrelenting bully (cost: 3d6) You may make an additional attack using the same action as the attack that triggered this.
Your allies have advantage making attacks or opposed ability checks against creatures intimidated or frightened by you.
Mirrorrorrim
Hero
Thinking further, I don't think rogue-style thugs (as opposed to fighter thugs) should have proficiency in shields. This fits no rogue fantasy I'm aware of. They need weapons or free hands to shake people down. Adding shields is merely a mechanical way to significantly increase their defense, but it doesn't make sense to me narratively.
Instead, I like the suggestions of others to enhance unarmed strikes and improvised weapons. Applying both Str and Dex mods to Unarmed Strike and Improvised Weapon damage feels better to me. And this would work with Tavern Brawler and other damage die increasing abilities, instead of making them redundant.
Instead, I like the suggestions of others to enhance unarmed strikes and improvised weapons. Applying both Str and Dex mods to Unarmed Strike and Improvised Weapon damage feels better to me. And this would work with Tavern Brawler and other damage die increasing abilities, instead of making them redundant.
Jefe Bergenstein
Legend
Full casters get wish and similar spells. I've run all rogues getting a 2nd attack at level 6 for years. It's fine. It just moves their damage from poor to pretty good.
Mirrorrorrim
Hero
A Rogue subclass does not needs to be compared to full spellcasters or Wish. It needs to be compared to other Rogue subclasses. And it blows all the other Rogue subclasses out of the water for both DPS and survivability.
Jefe Bergenstein
Legend
The same argument applies to bladesingers, valor bards, and any of the other caster classes that get given 2nd attack. The rogue class as a whole is weak. The power is offset by having to waste stat points in both strength and dex.
Mirrorrorrim
Hero
But they don't have to put points in Strength. They can do all the good stuff with a rapier and light armor.
Horwath
Legend
yes, probably.
but the rogue is the weakest class in 2024.
Not by a large margin as monk in 2014, but still.
this is same like they "patched" classes with subclasses in Tasha's with Gloomstalker, Mercy monk, aberrant and clockwork sorcerer and hexblade.
honestly, AT should be halfcaster and not poor 1/3rd caster.
