HEROLAB'S 5E Update Is Here!

They were working on a license before the SRD dropped. Might still be in the works.

epithet said:

Yeah, that's only if you're already using the program. For a new user, it's $30 to get part of the options available in the PHB. If you have to input a lot of the stuff yourself anyway, what's the point in buying their product? It seems to me that you would be better off using the Roll20 5e character creator for free, or PCGen with the downloadable 5e content (also free.)

I use Fantasy Grounds, and I paid a lot more than $30 for the program and all the D&D stuff, but I got all the D&D stuff. There's no way I would pay for an incomplete database--if I have to put in the content myself, I might as well build the entire database.

The SRD content module for Fantasy Grounds is included now with the base software at no additional charge. The SRD content itself is free from WotC, I think it is pretty audacious for a 3rd party to charge someone $20 for it.

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It wouldn't surprise me if the community-created content filled in the gaps within a matter of weeks. In any case, it still provides way more use for me than the cost (only $20 for me as I have Hero Lab for 3.5E already) .

Personally I'll be getting it in a couple of weeks. Gives them a bit of time to iron out a few of the initial bugs. If they can agree to an official licence with WotC, so much the better.

One needed feature: custom spells. SRD doesn't have all spells (which is weird, in and of itself) so need the ability to enter a custom spell.

Interesting interface. Haven't looked at all the features yet, but have heard good things about HL for a while.

Rob (a Lone Wolf staff member) posted (on the Lone Wolf forum) the following information in response to questions about the viability of creating community files to fill in the missing non-SRD content:

Here are some thoughts on this subject that will hopefully address some of the questions/concerns expressed above...

1. It is absolutely possible to extend the 5E data files in substantial ways. For reference, look at the myriad extensions for Pathfinder. The vast majority of Pathfinder 3PP data files, including the material we official sell, is created by the 3PPs themselves. In addition, the mammoth catalog of 3.5E community packs is all user-created. And it's all done without direct access to the raw data files. The same can be readily achieved for 5E.

2. The 3.5E community packs have existed for many years (nearly a decade). They were started back before 4E was even released. So the assumption that community files for 5E would be summarily shutdown by Wizards is not accurate. The first real question is whether the community files violate Wizards' copyright protections. Copyright protects the expression of an idea - not the idea itself - and it is not possible to copyright mechanics (that requires a patent). That means Wizards can absolutely require that users don't re-use the names, images, or complete descriptive text of anything they create - and they should. However, reproducing the mechanics of a particular feat or path is not covered by copyright protection. This means that a community-driven effort is viable, provided that it avoids using protected names (e.g. rename Mind Flayer to something similarly suggestive), omits all images, and paraphrases any descriptions. With those criteria met, I believe the community pack would generally be safe. Disclaimer: I'm NOT a lawyer, but I’ve talked to one extensively about this, and this is my understanding.

3. The other real question, and probably the more important one to Wizards, is whether any community-created data files would negatively impact Wizards’ sales of D&D products. So an important aspect of any community effort would be to ensure the data files don't “compete” against sales of the rulebooks or other products that Wizards is selling. As long as that requirement is met, it’s highly unlikely that Wizards would take exception to the community effort. And if the community data files are structured such that Wizards perceives them as making the game more accessible or easier for players/DMs (i.e. indirectly boosting sales of books), then we’ve achieved a truly symbiotic relationship. That’s the ideal scenario here, and it’s one that I believe is readily achievable. Disclaimer: I’m not privy to Wizards’ thinking on this, but I’m viewing this from the perspective of a business owner.

4. There is no reason for a community effort to go on hold based on the possibility of an official license. We’ve been striving to secure an official license for a very long time now, and the process is fraught with hurdles. Some of those hurdles are now behind us, but others still remain. A big hurdle has been, and will continue to be, expected pricing. Even if we do secure an official license, my assumption is that the required price point will be a barrier for some players, so I believe there’s a place for both an SRD-based community pack AND an officially licensed version of D&D – both through Hero Lab. There will be plenty of users who are happy to pay a premium for all the official text, the images, the simplicity, and the added testing of an “official” version. There will also be plenty of users who are content to use the unofficial community packs and save some money. I think there’s a place for both, and that assumes we CAN secure an official license (far from a sure thing). From my perspective, this means anyone interested in contributing to the community effort should not hold off based on the mere possibility of an official license.

I hope these thoughts prove helpful to everyone when determining whether to contribute to the community effort and how best to realize that effort.

From Rob's post it doesn't sound like there's any reason to expect a license is imminent or that it will necessarily happen at all. Makes me wonder whether wotc has some other unrevealed plan, as I suspect they know the desire for a fully informed digital tool is high and they seem to be trying to fill those desires (albeit at their own pace)

Nothing I'd hold my breath for though.

AD

Sillvva said:

Where are feats?

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Only grappler is provided in the SRD and as such only grappler is provided out of the box. With that said it's very easy to add feats yourself and a lot of progress has already been made on documenting the steps required to reproduce many of the feat mechanics. See link below.

forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=54849

I bought Hero Lab back when I was playing Pathfinder, and it saved me a ton of work. For more complex games like Pathfinder, with a lot of options and crunch, it can be a big time-saver.

I probably won't buy the 5e extension, simply because character creation in 5e is much less work than in Pathfinder. The $20 price tag (for existing Hero Lab customers) isn't unreasonable, but 5e is too basic for it to be much of a timesaver for me. I'm glad they have put it out as an option, though.

The biggest drawback to Hero Lab is the unnecessarily complex nature of building your own extensions. It's not that difficult for someone with a bit of a technical background, but your average GM or player would be better served by a better menu-driven extension creator of some sort - that would make it a much more valuable program for customers. Right now the approach to building custom extensions is a bit clunky and more like something you would see in an open source project, rather than a commercial one.

Overall, though, Hero Lab is incredibly useful if you play Pathfinder.

Hmmm... I might pay $30 for a complete package of licensed content but not for just the SRD. If I am going to have to input much of the content then I'll just use existing digital tools that are cheaper and have existing user-inputted content. Maybe it will get better/cheaper over time.

UPDATE: I tried the demo. I would not pay any money for this software. Maybe $1 for the nostalgia of time-traveling back to using PC software in the early 90's. Not friendly or pleasurable in any way. Why can't somebody do this kind of software correctly? How hard is it? I've seen networking software with an easier and better interface. Sigh.

dmdcdubs said:

Hmmm... I might pay $30 for a complete package of licensed content but not for just the SRD. If I am going to have to input much of the content then I'll just use existing digital tools that are cheaper and have existing user-inputted content. Maybe it will get better/cheaper over time.

UPDATE: I tried the demo. I would not pay any money for this software. Maybe $1 for the nostalgia of time-traveling back to using PC software in the early 90's. Not friendly or pleasurable in any way. Why can't somebody do this kind of software correctly? How hard is it? I've seen networking software with an easier and better interface. Sigh.

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Methinks you're in for disappointment if you expect the price to drop. The $30 package/$20 additional data set price for Hero Lab has been in place for a number of years now. If Lone Wolf do get a licence from WotC for all of 5E (rather than just the SRD) I’d expect that you’ll pay even more.

That said, I expect that community-created content will fill in the holes in the SRD. It’s obviously a much older product (but more complex too), but almost all the WotC 3.5E books have had their crunch input into Hero Lab by the community.

Out of interest, what didn’t you like about the interface? I haven’t used the 5E D&D version, but I expect it is very, very similar to the 3.5E D&D version.

I found there to be a bit of a learning curve with the 3.5E D&D version (a PDF manual would be great), but with a bit of Googling, was able to create custom items and spells fairly easily. Creating a character was very easy to do. Given the relative simplicity of 5E D&D, surely it should be even easier.

The GUI is so unnecessarily ugly and unintuitive. Maybe not enough people have complained and they are satisfied. Maybe I'm a design snob who embraces the last few decades of interface design and expects excellence, especially for $30. How in this day and age is this level of design acceptable? I'm not being snarky... I really am startled. My initial gut reaction was surprise and laughter. Maybe the important parts, the actual guts of the system are excellent. Function over form? I honestly couldn't get past the first few screens. That's never happened to me before. Other than that, steep learning curve for newbies. I'll try to play with it a bit more but I honestly can't see myself wasting time on this. I think your point about the simplicity of 5E is very apt here. This level of software complexity is overkill. Look at Pathguy's character creation site. It's clunky but workable. It makes sense and is still usable, even if simple and stark (and perhaps ugly).