Considerations when Designing a Warlord.

Zardnaar · Feb 11, 2016

FrogReaver said:
At X level capabilities should be roughly balanced with other classes abilities.
An ability to buff any ally is strictly superior to an identical ability that just buffs yourself.
Attack granting is very difficult to balance.
Advantage granting abilities are very difficult to balance as well.
Action granting abilities are even more difficult to balance.
Attack roll boosts are very difficult to balance
Damage boosts on more than a single attack can be difficult to balance (since different characters get different numbers of attacks)
Granting movement does relatively little in 5e most the time
Finding fluff reasons for such a Warlord's abilities can be very difficult as well.

Because most of the "Warlordy" type abilities are so hard to balance AND given the fact that an ability that can affect any ally will be need to help less than an ability that would just benefit yourself then I don't know if we will ever see a balanced 5e Warlord that meets 4e Warlord fans expectations from just a mechanics perspective.

Further, coupling those issues with the fluff reasons for abilities makes the job almost multiplicativly harder.

My solution was to design the class as a short rest class using the warlock as a template and adding powers they could select at whatever level on thinks they are suited for. Attack granting is really hard to balance unless it is a daily or short rest resource a'la spells or battlemaster dice as any improvement over them is more or less automatically broken.

Having a warlord use action points or whatever could be an option as ki points for example once you hit level 8 or so are almost usable every round assuming the 2 short rests, 6-8 encounters per day thing.

jodyjohnson · Feb 11, 2016

Zardnaar said:
Attack granting is really hard to balance unless it is a daily or short rest resource a'la spells or battlemaster dice as any improvement over them is more or less automatically broken.

Unless it is like the Beastmaster and brings its own lackey. I had a rough write up of a MasterBlaster (Mad Max) or Jasmine and Rajah class that had two units but divides the activities between one regular Action (2 moves, 2 potential Reactions, 2 potential Bonus actions).

jayoungr · Feb 11, 2016

Remathilis said:
* Adding a bonus to attack rolls for allies
* Adding a bonus to damage rolls for allies
* Adding additional actions for allies (by sacrificing his own actions)
* Adding additional AC for allies
* Adding a bonus to Saving Throws (either strict upgrade or additional attempts)
* Adding a bonus to Skill/Ability Checks
* Recover HP to allies
* Recover status (blinded, stunned, charmed, poisoned, etc)
* Hamper Enemy combat effectiveness (penalties to AC, hit, saves, etc)

Has anyone mentioned "Grant temporary HP to allies"?

Remathilis · Feb 11, 2016

jayoungr said:
Has anyone mentioned "Grant temporary HP to allies"?

Not directly. Good call.

Bluenose · Feb 11, 2016

jayoungr said:
Has anyone mentioned "Grant temporary HP to allies"?

I'm not sure that the differences between temporary hit points and normal hit points are significant enough for that to be a separate ability from simply recovering hit points.

Tony Vargas · Feb 11, 2016

Bluenose said:
I'm not sure that the differences between temporary hit points and normal hit points are significant enough for that to be a separate ability from simply recovering hit points.

They are critical differences. Temp hps can't stand up a fallen ally, while restoring hps can. You can't restore more hps to a wounded ally than they've lost, but you can layer temps on top of even an unwounded ally's hps. Temps don't stack, hp restoration does.

It's not that one is strictly better than the other, though hp restoration is more critical in difficult fights where allies are dropping, just that one is not a substitute for the other. Temps are more a form of damage mitigation, like other defensive buffs.

ChrisCarlson · Feb 11, 2016

Tony Vargas said:
Temps are more a form of damage mitigation, like other defensive buffs.

...and the way of record for representing inspirational bolstering. At least according to the devs. <shrug>

jayoungr · Feb 11, 2016

Bluenose said:
I'm not sure that the differences between temporary hit points and normal hit points are significant enough for that to be a separate ability from simply recovering hit points.

Well, the hypothetical warlord could do the two actions at different times. If everyone in the party is at full HP, the warlord can't heal (restore) anything, but can still grant temporary HP to allies if he/she wishes. So granting temporary HP might be more likely used at the beginning of a fight (though it could also be a bubble to keep allies from dropping), while HP restoration would be used only after the party has taken some hits.

The Crimson Binome · Feb 11, 2016

mellored said:
A fighter does "run out" of sword swings after 20 rounds by virtue of having no one to attack. She isn't doing infinite damage every rest.

A big part of it is that you don't know that you'll have twenty rounds of combat before your next long rest. You might have one fight in a day, or you might have a hundred before you get a chance to take a long rest.

As a wizard, you can never be sure whether any situation warrants spending a spell slot, or if you would be better off saving that spell slot for later. The same is true of other classes, with their ki and superiority dice and whatnot. As a fighter - or as any class, really - you know that making a weapon attack isn't going to put you in a worse situation later on.

mellored · Feb 11, 2016

Saelorn said:
As a wizard, you can never be sure whether any situation warrants spending a spell slot, or if you would be better off saving that spell slot for later. The same is true of other classes, with their ki and superiority dice and whatnot. As a fighter - or as any class, really - you know that making a weapon attack isn't going to put you in a worse situation later on.

That is true.

Still, a fighter isn't doing infinite damage every day. And doesn't break the game.
And at-will attack granting won't do infinite damage every day. And won't break the game.

Considerations when Designing a Warlord.

Zardnaar

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jodyjohnson

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jayoungr

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Remathilis

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Bluenose

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Tony Vargas

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ChrisCarlson

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jayoungr

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The Crimson Binome

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mellored

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