D&D 5E I gave up--Here's a Warrior-Mage base class

(EDIT: I've further described some of my reasoning in posts on pages 2 and 3, and included a revised proposal at this link. Your best bet is to read this post first in conjunction with that link to get a better look at the current state of discussion.)

After several unsuccessful attempts to make a satisfying AD&D demihuman style multiclassing alternative system for 5e, I finally decided to experiment with creating a new class to represent the one combination that inspired my efforts in the first place, to see if I could identify exactly what I was looking for.

Here is the result. Please let me know how the balance looks on the class. After posting the class information, I'll explain more about my motivations and some thoughts on design choices. (Typos will be present--this is an evaluation draft.)

Warrior-Mage Draft Table.PNG

Warrior-Mage
Warrior-mages are initiates of a revered elven tradition that combines the combat prowess of the fighter with the spellcraft of the wizard. Rather than focusing on either path, they train in both equally, sacrificing the fighter's depth of prowess and the wizard's depth of knowledge in exchange for the core capabilities of both.

Restriction: Elven Tradition
On most worlds, only elves and half-elves can become warrior-mages. DMs may decide to allow characters of other races to become warrior-mages on worlds where such traditions exist amongst other races.
In addition, warrior-mages cannot multiclass. Their training involves blending the features of both fighters and wizards as an alternative to multiclassing.

QUICK BUILD
You can make a warrior-mage quickly by following these suggestions. First, make either Strength or Intelligence your highest ability score, followed by the other. (Some warrior-mages who focus on archery or finesse weapons make Dexterity higher than Strength.) Second, choose the folk hero background. Third, choose the green-flame blade and prestidigitation cantrips, along with the following 1st-level spells for your spellbook: absorb elements, burning hands, detect magic, magic missile, shield, and sleep.

Class Features
As a warrior-mage, you gain the following class features.

HIT POINTS
Hit Dice: 1d8 per warrior-mage level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per warrior-mage level after 1st

PROFICIENCES
Armor: Light armor, medium armor, shields
Weapons: Simple weapons, martial weapons
Tools: None

Saving Throws: Constitution, Intelligence
Skills: Choose two from Acrobatics, Animal Handling, Arcana, Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Medicine, Perception, Religion, and Survival

EQUIPMENT
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:

· (a) a chain shirt or (b) leather armor
· (a) one simple weapon or (b) a shield
· (a) a component pouch or (b) an arcane focus
· One martial weapon and an explorer's pack
· A spellbook, a longbow, and a quiver of 20 arrows

Initiate of Blade and Tome

You are considered to be both a fighter and a wizard for the purpose of using or attuning to magic items.

Spellcasting

As a student of wizardry, you study and cast spells like a wizard, and you use the same spell list.

Cantrips
At 1st level, you know two cantrips of your choice from the wizard spell list. You learn additional wizard cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as showin the Cantrips Known column of the warrior-mage table.

SPELLBOOK
At 1st level, you have a wizard spellbook containing six 1st-level wizard spells of your choice.

PREPARING AND CASTING SPELLS
You prepare and cast spells as if you were a wizard.

SPELLCASTING ABILITY
Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for your wizard spells, and functions as it does for wizards.

RITUAL CASTING
You can cast a wizard spell as a ritual if that spell has the ritual tag and you have the spell in your spellbook. You don't need to have the spell prepared.

SPELLCASTING FOCUS
You can use an arcane focus (found in chapter 5) as a spellcasting focus for your wizard spells.

LEARNING SPELLS OF 1ST LEVEL AND HIGHER

Each time you gain a warrior-mage level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown on the Warrior-Mage table. On your adventures, you might find other spells that you can add to your spellbook (see the "Your Spellbook" sidebar in the wizard class entry sidebar).

Fighting Style
At 2nd level, you adopt a particular style of fighting as your specialty. Choose one of the options available to fighters.

Second Wind
Starting at 2nd level, you have a limited well of stamina that you can draw on to protect yourself from harm. On your turn, you can use a bonus action to regain hit points equal to 1d6 + your warrior-mage level.
Once you use this feature, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again.

Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by one. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

Extra Attack
Beginning at 6th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
The number of attacks increase to three when you reach 18th level in this class.

Arcane Specialization
Starting at 6th level, your study of wizardry allows you deeper insight into one school of magic of your choice.
You gain one of the following abilities of your choice from the wizard's Arcane Tradition feature: Arcane Ward*, Grim Harvest, Improved Minor Illusion, Instinctive Charm, Minor Alchemy, Minor Conjuration, Portent, Potent Cantrip.
*The ward has hit points equal to 12 + your Intelligence modifier, regardless of your level.

War Magic
Beginning at 8th level, when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action.

Indomitable Spirit
Beginning at 10th level, you can reroll a Strength or Wisdom saving throw that you fail. If you do so, you must use the new roll, and you can't use this feature again until you finish a long rest.

Improved War Magic
Starting at 14th level, when you use your action to cast a spell, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action.

Spell Mastery
At 20th level, you have achieved such mastery over certain spells that you can cast them at will. Choose a 1st-level wizard spell and a 2nd-level wizard spell that are in your spellbook. You can cast those spells at their lowest level without expending a spell slot when you have them prepared. If you want to cast either spell at a higher level, you must expend a spell slot as normal.
By spending 8 hours in study, you can exchange one or both spells you chose for different spells of the same levels.

(Better formatted pdf as an attachment)

Mechanical Design Thoughts:
-I was considering weakening Second Wind further (you'll notice it uses a d6 rather than a d10) by using half level for additional hp, but I realized that would make the feature rarely useful. It's a decision I could be convinced to reverse though.
-Indomitable Spirit is the last thing I added in. Although it fits very well, both conceptually and mechanically, I really wanted to just put a ribbon into the 10th level slot (I would have been left with dead level without something there). I had considered making it only apply to one of those saves (and then start applying to a second at higher level--still only one total usage). I had also considered making it only apply saves versus spells, rather than any Strength/Wisdom save--perhaps removing that restriction at high level. A friend convinced me that it waters down the concept to do the latter (instead of having some of the fighter's feature, it instead hints at a magical ability being used), and having a second save kick in at levels 18-20 seems underwhelming for that save. Without Indomitable Spirit the balance seems right, but it might be the one thing that pushes it a bit high, but maybe I'm just over-analyzing one nerfed feature that isn't exactly amazing in the first place.
-In case you missed it, I gave them the reduced cantrips of the bard, moon druid, and warlock, rather than the standard cantrips of the wizard and cleric.
-I went with 14th level rather than 18th for Improved War Magic, because this classes closest mechanical cousin (the valor bard) gets it at that level, and they should probably be as good at weaving sword and spell as the bard.
-They also get Extra Attack at 6th level. While that break 5e pattern for a full class getting damage scaling, it fits with Valor Bard and Blade Pact Warlock getting their second attacks, and makes sense as an appropriate way to weaken offensive power. The 8th level War Magic is an even easier choice.
-Extra Attack at 18th level is more for concept than mechanical usefulness, since it's often an inferior option compared to sticking with War Magic. It can be situationally useful. Note that it is assumed that you will be using either booming blade or green-flame blade as your standard at-will attack. The class's damage scaling is built around that assumption.
-Yes, there is no subclass. While I don't like breaking pattern like that, I think it's the best option. Fighting Style and Arcane Specialization fulfill the needed character differentiation options.

Why Are you Doing This? (Conceptual Design Thoughts):

-In days of yore (AD&D) multiclassing allowed simultaneous advancement in two (or three) classes. It was cool, it was awesome, it was around for 20+ years, and no satisfying substitute for some of the combinations (in particular, the fighter/magic-user) has been in official D&D since then. If 5e plans to do it, they are really taking their time, as we haven't even seen a playtest yet. While I'm hopeful to see what they have, I just don't want to keep waiting for something I may not even like.
-"Can't you just use class/subclass X?" No, no I can't, or I wouldn't have made several attempts at my own multiclassing solution. On the other hand, I can use existing rules and subclasses for most class combinations. A dwarf fighter/cleric mage can just be a War domain Cleric (or an Oath of the Crown Paladin if more fighter than cleric themed). A halfling fighter/thief can just be a Champion fighter with the right skill selection and feats. Same goes for a gnome Illusionist/thief. A cleric/mage is, in my opinion, better expressed by an Arcana domain cleric than actually combining those two classes. (A cleric of magic shouldn't expect multiclassing--they should give their clerics what they need, or not have clerics at all, IMO.) So that leaves the fighter/mage that really needs a strong expression, and just hasn't had one.
-"What about Eldritch Knight?" Eldritch Knight is so much fail (for this purpose--they are a perfectly fine subclass in their own right). They are a full fighter who dabbles in magic, and has some fun toys to go with it. A real fighter/mage is as much fighter as mage and as much mage as fighter.
-"What about Bladesinger though, surely that's close enough?" I actually really like Bladesinger. Short of some quibbles over not well supporting traditional weapon and armor combinations (eventually I found decent house rules to handle that), the subclass does an excellent job of representing the concept. However, it doesn't represent a more general warrior mage (even an elf or half-elf warrior mage) very well. It has a strong flavor and supports a particular play style. It is all about being mobile, not getting hit, and dancing around the battlefield doing its thing. It also only really supports a Dexterity-based character, so longsword are basically out. However, it did provide me with a good comparison point.
-"Okay, so why didn't you just create another Wizard subclass, if Bladesinger was only a bit off?" Believe me, I tried. More than once. It never felt right. Too much wizard and not enough warrior. I even considered giving it ways to trade in its wizardry though its subclass--such as allowing it to use it's Arcane Recovery to regain hit points rather than spell slots, or sacrifice spell slots after a long rest to gain a special warrior-enhancement feature for 24 hours. None of them really felt right, and were turning the subclass into a mess. They didn't really come at the right levels, etc.
-"I hate to say it, but you know there are actual multiclassing rules in 5e, right?" Of course. The problem is that that trying to combine fighter and wizard ends up with unsatisfying feature caps and unsatisfying advancement. Instead of an even rate of advancement, you're either really only doing one class at the beginning, and then adding in another when it's abilities are less impressive (especially if you take the obvious route of fighter first), or you are blending leveling in such a way that you aren't able to access even mid-level abilities--things that scale your damage appropriately, for instance--until high level. It's a real mess.
-"Can you tell me about these other attempts to create a new multiclassing system?" Yes, but I don't want to waste time with it. Here are a few links to threads I either started or participated in that are relevant.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...ticlassing-how-s-the-balance-of-this-proposal My most recent work.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...-s-mechanics-not-supporting-lore-issueRelates Relates to the Bladesinger, but the conversation devolved into my general disatisfaction with the 5e's warrior mage possibilities.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...-dirty-concurrent-multiclassing-gestalt-rules Not my thread, but I discussed a couple of my prior attempts on pages 7 and 8.

My basic conclusion after numerous tries was that every system I came up with ended up either overpowered and still not satisfying, or underpowered an satisfying. Some of them ended up giving too many class features that weren't needed, while others didn't give features they did need to. Making hit points work well without feat taxes could be difficult also. In the end it just wasn't working. Maybe WotC will give me something I like better.
-"Well, sounds like you have your mind made up. Why are you asking for my opinion?" Because I make mistakes. I'd like to get opinions on how balanced this class is, and if there are any particular pitfalls I'm missing. Suggestions for how to correct those if you think it is broken but salvagable, are also appreciated. I compared this class with Eldritch Knight, Abjurer, and Bladesinger at levels 1-20 to see how the balance looked at each level. In addition to just looking at raw numbers, I considered the archetype representation. For instance, if I want to play an Eldritch Knight--all fighter with a dash of wizard--is this class going to look more appealing than the Eldrich Knight? Am I going to be tempted to pick this class instead? Even if I stick with Eldritch Knight, am I still going to feel class envy and feel like it is a better class, and I'm only sticking with Eldritch Knight because it's a better fit for my concept? Same thing with the wizards. Bladesinger was both the easiest and the hardest. Easiest in the sense that they are very close in concept, but hardest in the sense that it really challenged the balance. The choice of which one to play needs to be obvious and satisfying whichever way you go. I want to be a full-wizard with the particular feel and playstyle of the Bladesinger, it's the satisfying and obvious choice. I want to be equal parts fighter and wizard, and I'm willing to sacrifice some magic to get there, this class is obviously the way to go. Another decent comparision point is Valor Bard, because they are a fellow full caster with a flexible spell list (Magical Secrets for the win) with the same HD and Extra Attack at 6th level. It's harder to compare point by point, because WotC apparently rates access to the wizard spell list very, very highly, and bard gets a lot of features that aren't anything like fighter or wizard features, but it at least provides another comparision.

So, thoughts?
 

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Xeviat

Hero
I would have liked to see you build this as a proper half-caster. A fighter/wizard in 2E wouldn't have had as high of a wizard level as a single classed wizard, no?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Dualazi

First Post
Basically what Xeviat said. It seems solid, but with such a comparable level of spell progression it would be a really hard sell to convince me to go with a classic wizard over this one, since you seem to still have plenty of spells as well as decent frontline capabilities and proficiencies.
 

BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
The first thing that jumped out at me was the Extra extra attack at 18th level. It seems out of place. Paladins don't have it, Rangers don't have it, should this half-caster have it?
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Let's compare your character to a wizard. I personally could care less about late level features so I'm not going to look at anything past level 13 or 14.

Level 1:
Wizard has maybe 14 ac and 8 hp. Wizard gets more cantrips. Wizard gets arcane recovery.
You get 17 ac and 10 hp. You get just as many spells known. Just as many spell slots.

So far I'd say your hybrid wizard is ahead but it's not totally clear cut.

Level 2.
You can gain an extra AC and go to 18 ac and you get a healing ability that probably out performs arcane ward. Nothing else really changes between the 2.

It's looking like you are the better wizard so far.

Level 3.
Nothing changes

Level 4:
Nothing changes

Level 5:
Nothing changes

Level 6:
you basically give the level 2 wizard subclass feature here. So far I'm convinced you have just made a stronger wizard and I'm just looking at him from the point of view of a not even using his weapon features.

Level 7. no difference

Level 8. You gain the war magic feature and the wizard gains nothing

Level 9. no difference

Level 10. fairly comparable to the wizard subclass features.

....

Anyways it's pretty comparable from here on. Basically you get 2nd wind and he gets arcane recovery. You get a lot more AC and a lot more HP than the wizard. I'd rate your wizard as a better wizard than the actual wizard. He's not much better though but he's definitely better.

There's also the alternative approach of making your class into a fighter that uses buff spells and occasionly a big fireball. I think you'll find that kind of character may actually be better than a regular fighter as well. Many uses of the shield spell. Buff spells galore like expeditious retreat and haste. AOE spells like fireball gotten on time. Yea, your class is only a slightly better wizard than a wizard but I think it's a much better fighter than a fighter.
 

This sets off my powergamer instincts. It has all the best parts of being a wizard and all the best parts of being a fighter, but the same XP progression as a single-classed character. It's probably a dominant option for its niche.

If I'm going to allow concurrent multiclassing, I'll just allow concurrent multiclassing. I wouldn't try to sneak it in with a class-and-a-half approach like this one.
 


gyor

Legend
Serious, 1 level of fighter for your first level, higher starting HPs, for weapons, armour, profs, second wind, and a fighting style, and just do the rest as a wizard, invest heavily into constitution, and use the Greenflane Blade and Booming Blade spells and you basically have an excellent and viable Fighter Mage.
 

cbwjm

Seb-wejem
I would probably remove arcane specialisation, indomitable spirit, and the second extra attack, and then move war magic to level 10. I would possibly keep war magic at level 6 and lose extra attack completely showing that the focus is the elven tradition of blending sword and spell. 18th level I would just keep as the wizard class ability (Is that the 1st and 2nd level free cast spell?)

The reason I would do this is that this is essentially a wizard subclass which has combat as their focus, you could get something similar by doing the following (which i admit is very front loaded):

2nd level
Gain 2 hit points, +1 hit point per wizard level gained.
Gain training in light armour, medium armour, and shields.
Gain training in simple weapons and martial weapons

6th level
Gain extra attack

10th level
Gain war magic

14th level
Gain improved war magic
 

Hi, Sword of Spirit,

I like what you've done, here, and it's obvious you've given it a lot of thought.

My gut reaction is that it's probably too strong of a class, but I'd probably allow it in my game if someone really wanted to play it. Though, I'd probably have to edit some things.

For instance, I find the 18th level extra attack too much. To me, it steps on the toes of the Paladin, Ranger, and Barbarian.
 

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