What Makes a Game Great? - Page 3
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  1. #21
    Grandmaster of Flowers (Lvl 18)

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    Oct 2006
    Monopoly suffers from several game design flaws that may or may not bother you, depending on the kind of other games you have already played. The more well-designed games you know, the more egregious these flaws become in your mind until you can no longer tolerate to waste your time playing it.

    Popularity and commercial success are unfortunately not always a good measurement of great design.

    I've grown to dislike almost all of the well-known classic board games over time. Diplomacy may well be the only exception.

    Regarding RPGs, I don't consider most editions of D&D well designed (my favorite is 4e), but I'd still play them, because unlike board games, any RPG can be used to create great gaming sessions if the GM is great and the players are on a roll.
    Runequest is one of the few RPGs I consider really well-designed, especially considering its age. Ars Magica is another.
    XP Tony Vargas gave XP for this post

  2. #22
    As a point of reference, the RPG listed in Hobby Games: The 100 Best are:

    Ars Magica
    Call of Cthulhu
    Dungeons & Dragons
    The Extraordinary Adventures of Baron Munchausen
    Marvel Super Heroes
    Metamorphosis Alpha
    My Life with Master
    Unknown Armies
    Vampire: The Masquerade

    ...while Prince Valiant is also listed in Family Games: The 100 Best.

    Of all of those, I probably agree with most but disagree with Metamorphosis Alpha (sorry Gary!) and Unknown Armies (I think Over The Edge had more influence, in my view). Some of these games also, obviously, lasted out better than others and the list was compiled before some other modern games were formulated - would Fiasco or Dread make the list now? Maybe games like Deadlands or Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying were unlucky? Is the list too focussed on US/English games - ignoring some of the stylish European games, for example?
    XP pemerton gave XP for this post

  3. #23
    Novice (Lvl 1)

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    Sep 2012
    Spokane, WA, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by Random Bystander View Post
    "Give me more soldiers, noble leader, that they may sheath their swords in the beating hearts of our enemies!"
    "Build Marketplaces my lord so that the peasants can barter for needed goods."

    Wish they never got rid of the cut scenes! LOL You can watch them all on YouTube, now, actually. The Wonder Movies were also rather enjoyable.

  4. #24
    Lama (Lvl 13)

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    Nov 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by pemerton View Post
    I've never played it, but back in my university days many of the players in my RPG group were also players of Empires in Arms.
    That was my group - when we weren't roleplaying we sometimes had a 7-player game of Empires in Arms going.

    It offers detailed and interconnected political, economic, strategic and tactical play, while brilliantly evoking the era. That's still a very rare thing in boardgaming - there's very little to touch it.

    While it is still legendary amongst wargamers, I doubt the print run ran to more than a few thousand copies. But then sales are chronically over-rated as a measure of merit. People like to pretend being a 'best seller' matters to validate their choices.
    Last edited by chaochou; Tuesday, 24th October, 2017 at 07:16 PM.

  5. #25
    Scout (Lvl 6)

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Gainesville, FL
    People rarely actually remember *Monopoly* fondly, they remember doing something together with their family (often at holidays) when they were kids, where Monopoly happened to be what they were doing. It's the active togetherness, not the game, that counts. I have often discussed this with college students, and they usually agree with this point of view. (Many say they never actually *completed* a game of Monopoly, of course.)

    Popularity does not equal greatness, both in games and in other entertainments and arts. Keep in mind, many if not most mass-market games are bought as presents. Monopoly is bought because it's well known, and because the buyer figures that "everyone knows how to play" so they won't have learn the game in order to help the kids learn the game.

    As a game design, it's pretty bad for adults, though works for younger children. When I teach game design, I use Monopoly on the very first day as a student exercise in how a popular game is a poor design, and how they can improve it, at least from the point of view of thinkers.

    Enevhar Aldarion: Replayability was, I thought, implied in people playing the game again and again and again.

    "And there has to be an element of chance, like with dice rolling or with random number generators in PC/console games. If a highly skilled player can beat everyone else every time, then a great game quickly becomes boring and not fun to any but the elite few grand master experts."

    You're saying, then, that Chess and Checkers are not great games - because there's no element of chance? I have to disagree.

    Of course, different people will have different ideas of what makes a game great.

    jrowland: " a game where players feel that mastery matters lends itself to greatness. " That's a good point, but so many games today are not about mastery at all, and many games in the past, can we say that these are unlikely to ever be regarded as a great game? Perhaps.

    Chaochou: "People like to pretend being a 'best seller' matters to validate their choices." Yes, validation of one's preferences (which is meaningless to me, but seems to be very important to many gamers nowadays) is a strong motivation for linking popularity to "great". Thanks for reminding me of that.

  6. #26
    The Grand Druid (Lvl 20)

    TerraDave's Avatar

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    Jul 2004
    A Nation's Capitol
    I like the criteria.

    Of course poker (and its popular variants) and backgammon fit. Millions of people have played these over many many decades. Everyone has heard of them. Go is another one.

    Popular family games, Clue, Monopoly, Uno, card games like Go Fish probably don't fit. They are well known, but not really lifestyle games.

    Hobby gaming is a little tricky. The reason is that in each major part of it, there is a flagship game, and many people only play that game. Then other people play a bunch of games in that category.

    Ameritheme (and light war-gaming): Axis and Allies and its variants stand on its own, but some people play a wide range of retro games and light wargames.

    Eurogames: Settlers is in a class by itself, played by millions and millions around the world. For Puerto Rico and the rest, if you have play one, you probably often play others.

    RPGs: D&D is the only RPG that non-RPGers (including other hobby gamers) are likely to know about. Many people only play or have only played it. But of course there are lots of RPGs. And another group of gamers often play a range of games.

    Of course there are some close ones. WoD is close. And if we included LARPing then it would already be there. In time games like Pandemic or Dominion may sit besides Settlers. But we have to wait.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by HockeyNsmile View Post
    I like when there is excitement in the game this is the best for me try this game I play with my friends play slots in Casumo Casino
    you surprise me here there is love of excitement

  8. #28
    If your criteria is that the game becomes a "lifestyle" game for many players, Monopoly certainly wouldn't count. There are exceedingly few dedicated Monopoly players (I've met one of them, and he's someone with exceedingly average intellect who likes the Star Wars prequels). Most RPGs wouldn't count either - they tend not to sustain a dedicated following but instead there is system hopping. WoD and perhaps Savage Worlds might qualify.

  9. #29
    Cutpurse (Lvl 5)

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    Mar 2004
    Paris, France
    What game is the picture from ?

  10. #30
    Lama (Lvl 13)

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    Nov 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by Stereofm View Post
    What game is the picture from ?
    Empires in Arms, a 7-player, 150+ hour boardgame covering the Napoleonic Wars from 1805 to 1815. It was published by Avalon Hill and Australia Design Group in 1983 and is long, long out of print.

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