D&D 5E character creation and new players

GlassJaw

Hero
I'm in a great group but aside from myself, everyone else is fairly new to D&D and 5E. The campaign I was running is on hold (lineup and scheduling issues) so another player is running Sunless Citadel from TftYP to cut his DMing teeth (which gives me a chance to play!).

Last night was our session 0 and we made characters. And as the most experienced in the group, I walked everyone through chargen. One player was new, and he asked a question that threw me a little bit. I don't remember his exact question but he was basically asking how important are race & class combinations.

I knew what he was asking but what threw me was how to describe the inherent synergies that some combinations offer without forcing my opinions on what character he could make. For example, he initially mentioned a forest gnome warlock, which is pretty cool conceptually. While discussing the mechanics of the Warlock, I explained racial stat bonuses and stat generation (we use standard array or point-buy).

To be honest, it was really hard, and after thinking about it, I feel like I may have done him a disservice. I almost felt like I "knew too much" to detach myself from the mechanics and simply go with whatever he thought was cool. I certainly didn't tell him his idea sucked - quite the opposite - but I was concerned that if I didn't explain how racial synergies worked, he might be disappointed in his choice down the road.

He eventually settled on a dragonborn warlock, and was quite satisfied with his concept. But once again, I found myself explaining that his Str bonus will largely go to waste unless he played a specific type of warlock (bladelock), but he wasn't interested in that at all (he chose Great Old One).

Anyway, everyone had fun and we are pretty flexible with letting people make changes as everyone is still learning so not a huge deal. But I wish I handled the teaching aspect a little better. Any thoughts or advice?
 

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Thurmas

Explorer
I'm not sure it does matter much beyond two key factors: Racial Stats bonuses and typical Race/Class stereotypes. Once you get past those two things, there really is no reason to suggest one race can't be any class. There are of course exceptions. Half-Orc obviously lends itself more to melee classes with savage attacker. A bladesinger requires you to be some form of elf.

Beyond that, I've always looked at it as let the player tell their character's story. I have no problem swapping one set of racial bonuses with another as long as it feeds a character story/concept. So it comes down to what the DM allows.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
Honestly I think you're right when you say that it can be a disservice :)

I prefer not to suggest anything in terms of "what is better" but only in terms of "what is easier" (meaning lower complexity, less amount of things to remember) fo their first character.

You don't know what a new player will like from the game.

Some players like the story, the role playing, the investigations and the fantasy creatures and locations, and couldn't care less about "efficiency". If you try to push them towards the path of that specific playstyle they'll probably hate the game, they'll think it's a nerds game or eve idiotic.

Other players love that playstyle of optimization and even powergaming. But then they are much more likely to have fun figuring out themselves how to "win" the game than being told beforehand.

Besides, with the 5e ability scores cap it doesn't even matter that much.
 

GMMichael

Guide of Modos
For example, he initially mentioned a forest gnome warlock, which is pretty cool conceptually.
. . . except for the "warlock" part. ;)

I'd say that you did fine as a teacher. Races and classes don't really synergize in D&D (depending on your edition); it's more of a complementing effect. So if you're a magician, your race can make you a slightly better magician, not a significantly better one.

Anyway, the urge that you felt to guide the player into a pigeonhole was one well resisted. Avoiding common race/class combos doesn't diminish the PC's potential. It just results in a more rounded character.
 

clearstream

(He, Him)
I'm in a great group but aside from myself, everyone else is fairly new to D&D and 5E. The campaign I was running is on hold (lineup and scheduling issues) so another player is running Sunless Citadel from TftYP to cut his DMing teeth (which gives me a chance to play!).

Last night was our session 0 and we made characters. And as the most experienced in the group, I walked everyone through chargen. One player was new, and he asked a question that threw me a little bit. I don't remember his exact question but he was basically asking how important are race & class combinations.

I knew what he was asking but what threw me was how to describe the inherent synergies that some combinations offer without forcing my opinions on what character he could make. For example, he initially mentioned a forest gnome warlock, which is pretty cool conceptually. While discussing the mechanics of the Warlock, I explained racial stat bonuses and stat generation (we use standard array or point-buy).

To be honest, it was really hard, and after thinking about it, I feel like I may have done him a disservice. I almost felt like I "knew too much" to detach myself from the mechanics and simply go with whatever he thought was cool. I certainly didn't tell him his idea sucked - quite the opposite - but I was concerned that if I didn't explain how racial synergies worked, he might be disappointed in his choice down the road.

He eventually settled on a dragonborn warlock, and was quite satisfied with his concept. But once again, I found myself explaining that his Str bonus will largely go to waste unless he played a specific type of warlock (bladelock), but he wasn't interested in that at all (he chose Great Old One).

Anyway, everyone had fun and we are pretty flexible with letting people make changes as everyone is still learning so not a huge deal. But I wish I handled the teaching aspect a little better. Any thoughts or advice?
I've run this same gamut (a long while ago, but I share your experience and feelings). Your instincts are absolutely right and although you shouldn't beat yourself up about it, you did more than you needed to. It can be hard, but I feel like we need to let new players make their own choices. It's all too tempting to step in an ensure they choose the mechanically best option, when often all they want is a concept that excites them.

I think maybe, one thing that helps with that, is remember that they don't need to learn everything right away. It's overbearing to overload them with all the factors to consider in one go. Better to let them take what they feel drawn to, let them have fun, and a few sessions later or on another character talk about why X was chosen over Y.

Today, if I have to err, I err on letting a new player make their own mistakes. Honestly, I find it so hard to STFU, so it's work for me to do that even now.
 

Oofta

Legend
I would just give them a brief overview. Something along the lines of...

All classes have recommended primary and secondary ability scores, different races get different bonuses. So for example if you want to play a warlock you may want to play a race that gets a plus to charisma.

But play what you want and think will be fun. It doesn't really matter that much unless you care about optimizing your character.

Let them decide. At some point they may decide it's important to them to optimize, but different people play for different reasons.

Then again my last character was a mountain dwarf rogue, so I'm probably doing it wrong anyway. :D
 

Xaelvaen

Stuck in the 90s
Avoiding common race/class combos doesn't diminish the PC's potential. It just results in a more rounded character.

This. Elf barbarian is one of my favorite race/class combinations because of how well-rounded it makes the character. (Big fan of the Kagonesti, obviously).
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
Sorry if this is non-responsive, but IMHO, the best thing to do with brand-new players is to hand them a selection of pregens.
With everything already statted out and ready to go - race, class, background, gear, personality, and all - plus a little blurb about their relationships with the other pregens & their attitudes that'll affect the story and a picture & one-line concept, players can pick a character that appeals to them, and learn the system by playing it. Later they can build their own characters if a concept occurs to them, or there's something they'd like to try out for whatever reason.
 


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