D&D 5E Cavalier Build Help

laughinggas · Nov 22, 2017

Hey Everybody,

I just got my copy of Xanathar's guide yesterday and I am loving a lot of what I see. In particular, I love the flavor and theme of the Cavalier. I was wondering what feats would best serve it?

If a standard point buy is used, I assume the Cavalier will end up with 2 to 3 feats depending on race since he will want to get both Strength and Constitution to 20 for additional uses of his class abilities.

Sadly, there seems to be anti-synergy with Polearms since your mark has to be within 5' of you. Also, the mark gives additional attacks which would be better than PAM's haft attack. Does some anti-synergy and overlap make PAM not worth it?

It seems the same goes for Sentinel in the overlap department. Of course for damage, GWM is a must, but what about Charger, Mobile, Martial Adept, Heavy Armor Master?

If the campaign allowed for a lot of open combat where mounts are usable, would mounted combatant be worth it or would the deflection feature provide enough help?

Thanks for any input in advance!

mellored · Nov 22, 2017

Since you will be taking more than your share of attacks, a shield is a strong option. Probably defensive style, heavy armor mastery, and shield master. Take prodigy (athletics), or a level of rogue later (when proficiency is bigger) and you will beat most checks.

Sentinel is redundant. Something like the healer feat would be better.
Charger is just a bad feat. Martial Adept is a pretty weak feat.
Mobile won't help you if you ride a horse.
Mounted is somewhat redundant, since you'll be knocking creatures prone for advantage, and can protect your horse. Though it does help against fireballs and ranged attacks, depending on how big that is, it could still be worthwhile.

Also, remember that mullti-attack = multi-mark.

laughinggas · Nov 22, 2017

mellored said:
Since you will be taking more than your share of attacks, a shield is a strong option. Probably defensive style, heavy armor mastery, and shield master. Take prodigy (athletics), or a level of rogue later (when proficiency is bigger) and you will beat most checks.

Sentinel is redundant. Something like the healer feat would be better.
Charger is just a bad feat. Martial Adept is a pretty weak feat.
Mobile won't help you if you ride a horse.
Mounted is somewhat redundant, since you'll be knocking creatures prone for advantage, and can protect your horse. Though it does help against fireballs and ranged attacks, depending on how big that is, it could still be worthwhile.

Also, remember that mullti-attack = multi-mark.

Wow, thanks for the input. So going for damage is potentially suicidal as a cavalier due to all the marking one may do.

I looked at the eventual charge for advantage on future attacks and figured gaining advantage would be great for GWM.

Is going 2-handed weapons completely foolish, or is it more of an issue of not allowing yourself to do your job as well as you could?

ppaladin123 · Nov 22, 2017

Is Sentinel really redundant? Unwavering Mark and Sentinel both provide disadvantage to those who attack allies within 5ft but sentinel lets you respond with a reaction attack while unwavering mark lets you attack with advantage as a bonus action on your next turn if they actually hit and did damage. So you could use both back to back.

Then Hold the line...5 foot movement provokes an opportunity attack (more general than sentinel) but sentinel specifically states that it works even if the target uses the disengage action (which hold the line does not). So they seem to work together.

You could argue that sentinel's added value is low but it doesn't seem to simply copy of the effects of these two features.

mellored · Nov 22, 2017

2-handed is not suicidal, but it seems better to play to it's strengths. Though which is better depends on the party. If you want GWM, then take mounted combat for advantage. Also HAM is still a good option.

You probably won't make it to level 15, so i wouldn't worry about it until you get there.

ppaladin123 · Nov 22, 2017

Resilient (wis) is never a bad idea so that is another feat option.

laughinggas · Nov 22, 2017

ppaladin123 said:
Is Sentinel really redundant? Unwavering Mark and Sentinel both provide disadvantage to those who attack allies within 5ft but sentinel lets you respond with a reaction attack while unwavering mark lets you attack with advantage as a bonus action on your next turn if they actually hit and did damage. So you could use both back to back.

Then Hold the line...5 foot movement provokes an opportunity attack (more general than sentinel) but sentinel specifically states that it works even if the target uses the disengage action (which hold the line does not). So they seem to work together.

You could argue that sentinel's added value is low but it doesn't seem to simply copy of the effects of these two features.

Huh, good points. It looks like the only overlapping feature would be the setting movement to 0. Also, it looks like the class was almost designed for sentinel as its reaction attack goes hand in hand with the lvl 18 feature.

If Human, the order of feats might look something like this:
Lvl 1: Shield Master/Sentinel
Lvl 4: STR 18
Lvl 6: Sentinel/Shield Master
Lvl 8: Prodigy (expertise Atheletics)

Afterwards increasing Con to 18, Str to 20, Heavy armor Master, and Resilient (Wis).

If another race, Prodigy would be removed. How does all that sound?

Gladius Legis · Nov 22, 2017

ppaladin123 said:
Is Sentinel really redundant? Unwavering Mark and Sentinel both provide disadvantage to those who attack allies within 5ft but sentinel lets you respond with a reaction attack while unwavering mark lets you attack with advantage as a bonus action on your next turn if they actually hit and did damage. So you could use both back to back.

Then Hold the line...5 foot movement provokes an opportunity attack (more general than sentinel) but sentinel specifically states that it works even if the target uses the disengage action (which hold the line does not). So they seem to work together.

You could argue that sentinel's added value is low but it doesn't seem to simply copy of the effects of these two features.

Correct. Sentinel is pretty darn nice for a Cavalier. Sentinel's punishment is also at-will while the Cavalier's Unwavering Mark is limited to STR mod/day.

mellored · Nov 22, 2017

ppaladin123 said:
Is Sentinel really redundant? Unwavering Mark and Sentinel both provide disadvantage to those who attack allies within 5ft but sentinel lets you respond with a reaction attack while unwavering mark lets you attack with advantage as a bonus action on your next turn if they actually hit and did damage. So you could use both back to back.

True. But that only matters if the enemy provokes.
If the mark keeps enemies standing there attacking you. Sentinel adds absolutely nothing. No more than immobilizing someone twice is helpful.

Though... if you have an ally who forces enemies to provoke (cleric with command "flee"). Then you could get some milage out of it.
Also, hold the line + cloud of daggers seems like a great combo. The enemy can't get out of it while you stand there.

I'm starting to like cavalier.

laughinggas · Nov 22, 2017

mellored said:
True. But that only matters if the enemy provokes.
If the mark keeps enemies standing there attacking you. Sentinel adds absolutely nothing. No more than immobilizing someone twice is helpful.

Though... if you have an ally who forces enemies to provoke (cleric with command "flee"). Then you could get some milage out of it.
Also, hold the line + cloud of daggers seems like a great combo. The enemy can't get out of it while you stand there.

I'm starting to like cavalier.

It would work with any spell effect that does damage over time in an area. Though way down the line, just think if a cavalier can catch at least 3 enemies stuck in a wall of fire or other similar spell. They are stuck taking fire damage until the spell runs out.