D&D 5E (2014 5E!) What feats need that missing ASI???

[bedir than]

Skilled is one that feels like it should be improved via something like pick two skills, a tool or language and improve one attribute.

 

[ezo]

Skilled is one that feels like it should be improved via something like pick two skills, a tool or language and improve one attribute.

FWIW, I am not trying to change what a feat can do precisely, just adding an ASI to the ones that might need it.

Here's my first draft at it:

Summary:
Alert - NO ASI
Great Weapon Master - NO ASI
Lucky - NO ASI
Polearm Master - NO ASI
Sentinel - NO ASI
Sharpshooter - NO ASI
Spell Sniper - NO ASI
Bountiful Luck - NO ASI
Prodigy - NO ASI

Charger - ???
Crossbow Expert - ???
Defensive Duelist - ???
Mage Slayer - ???
Metamagic Adept - ???

Dual Wielder - DEX
Dungeon Delver - choose DEX, INT, or WIS
Elemental Adept - choose INT, WIS, or CHA
Grappler - STR
Healer - WIS
Inspiring Leader - CHA
Magic Initiate - choose INT, WIS, or CHA
Martial Adept - choose STR, DEX, or CON
Medium Armor Master - DEX
Mobile - DEX
Mounted Combatant - WIS
Ritual Caster - choose INT or WIS
Savage Attacker - choose STR or DEX
Shield Master - DEX
Skilled - choose ANY
Skulker - choose DEX or WIS
Tough - CON
War Caster - choose INT, WIS, or CHA
Svirfneblin Magic - INT
Eldritch Adept - CHA
Fighting Initiate - choose STR, DEX, or CON
Poisoner - choose CON or INT
Drow High Magic - CHA
Wood Elf Magic - WIS

 

[Horwath]

FWIW, I am not trying to change what a feat can do precisely, just adding an ASI to the ones that might need it.

Here's my first draft at it:

Summary:

agree with most, but some addition:

Spell Sniper - NO ASI

This is more or less a worse variant of sharpshooter,
range is only doubled on spells while on ranged weapons is mostly 4x further and on few weapons only 3x increase.
Cover ignoring stays the same.
So is one extra cantrip, when you have 3 or 4 of them with less range boost worth the -5/+10 mechanic?

Bountiful Luck - NO ASI
Prodigy - NO ASI

these two feats are simply bad as full feats and while giving +1 ASI to Prodigy would put it over Skill expert from tasha, just how much broken would be extra too and language be? This feat after Tasha's just needs to be removed or really buffed:
like 2skills, 2 tools, 2 languages and 1 expertise.

Bountiful luck? I would not take that even with +1 ASI.
it happens in 1/20 of the rolls, cost your reaction, cost you your racial trait for a round, yeah there wont be lot's of rolls of 1 in a single round, and has only 30ft range.

this needs +1 ASI and something else extra to be considered a good feat.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Definitely Medium Armor Master.

Ok. I read moderately armored (UA) and thought it was a joke.

 

[ezo]

This is more or less a worse variant of sharpshooter,
range is only doubled on spells while on ranged weapons is mostly 4x further and on few weapons only 3x increase.
Cover ignoring stays the same.

Yes, spellsniper is worse than sharpshooter, but the goal (for me) isn't to try to make all the feats "equal" but to give ASIs to the ones that actually need them. IMO, spellsniper doesn't. I think most people would agree sharpshooter is one of the most powerful and useful feats for ranged weapon attackers.

So is one extra cantrip, when you have 3 or 4 of them with less range boost worth the -5/+10 mechanic?

The range boost is a bit better for spellsniper when if you consider that without it, attacking beyond the "normal range" for the spell is impossible!. There is no, "Yes, you can cast firebolt at 180 feet but with disadvantage." You just can't do it, period. With spellsniper, not only is it possible, but you don't have disadvantage.

Compair that to a shortbow. Yes, you CAN use a shortbow against a target at 180 feet, but with disadvantage. Sharpshooter simply removes the disadvantage, the chance was already there.

In that sense, IMO, spellsniper is a bit more powerful because it makes something that wasn't feasible actually possible.

Now, is an extra cantrip worth it? Maybe, but probably not. I guess it depends. While the -5/+10 feature for sharpshooter is nice, I've seen a lot of time when the extra -5 attack modifier resulted in complete misses. It is a net-zero feature IMO, or practically so. Of course, when you build for it and can get optimal situations, it can be very powerful certainly!

Since an ASI represents "half a feat", I don't feel spellsniper falls that much short to warrant getting one. If it did, and you could increase your spellcasting ability modifier (a reasonable suggestion), it becomes nearly a must have feat for any D&D game which has a reasonable amount of combat. You'd be getting:

• Double all spell attack ranges.
• A new attack cantrip.
• Ignoring attacking into melee since no cover bonus.

- Increase your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma by 1, to a maximum of 20.

Honestly, what spellcaster wouldn't grab that by 8th level?? Adding an ASI would make it too good IMO.

these two feats are simply bad as full feats and while giving +1 ASI to Prodigy would put it over Skill expert from tasha, just how much broken would be extra too and language be? This feat after Tasha's just needs to be removed or really buffed:
like 2skills, 2 tools, 2 languages and 1 expertise.

Skill Expert never should have been released as it was, it makes Prodigy a non-issue choice. Who would exchange an ASI for a tool and language proficiency? Very few IMO.

But, you can't give Prodigy an ASI because, as you know, it would make it better than Skill Expert. When you couple the fact that Skill Expert has no race prerequisite, and you can choose ANY ASI, not one related to the skill or expertise you choose (a HUGE mistake in design for Skill Expert IMO!), yeah Prodigy is obsolete 99% of the time.

It is just a weird balancing act. Would Prodigy with an ASI be too much? Probably not. But then you wouldn't need Skill Expert...

If I wanted to rewrite feats, I would just revamp them all.

Bountiful luck? I would not take that even with +1 ASI.
it happens in 1/20 of the rolls, cost your reaction, cost you your racial trait for a round, yeah there wont be lot's of rolls of 1 in a single round, and has only 30ft range.

this needs +1 ASI and something else extra to be considered a good feat.

I see this as a "critical feat" IMO for those who take it. While natural 1's are (thankfully) rare, having near infinite uses when you want them is strong. But, like spellsniper, if you give this a +1 DEX, it is too useful for most halflings not to take it in many cases IMO. Perhaps CHA +1 or CON +1 would be ok IMO. Both of those have fewer feats that grant ASIs.

Good feedback. In all, I just can't view spellsniper as weak enough to warrant an ASI. Prodigy is a weird issue due to Skill Expert being too good IMO with an ASI. I could easily see giving Bountiful Luck a "choose Constitution or Charisma", however.

 

[ezo]

@Horwath any thoughts on these:

Charger - ???
Crossbow Expert - ???
Defensive Duelist - ???
Mage Slayer - ???
Metamagic Adept - ???

 

[Horwath]

@Horwath any thoughts on these:

In my 1st post I said that I would put ASI on:
Defensive duelist
Mage slayer
Metamagic adept.

 

[ezo]

In my 1st post I said that I would put ASI on:
Defensive duelist
Mage slayer
Metamagic adept.

My question was more about which ASI would you put? Sorry for the confusion.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Sure. We are playing 5E now, and there are some feats my players have been talking about as not quite strong enough to not have an ASI.

Oh, I didn't mean to deny your thread-premise! It's just a problem that's likely to be solved.

Also, I have absolutely no intention of bothering with any 2024 material. Just because it is coming out doesn't mean everyone under the Sun is excited about it, the changes, or planning on using it.

Sure, everyone has their own thing. My only question would be - if you're looking for a specific thing (such as rebalanced feats) and the new books have what you're looking for (let's, for the purposes of this question, assume that the feats WILL be rebalanced in a satisfying way - which obviously we have no way ATM to know that they will or won't be), then, why wouldn't you use the "new" versions?

Finally, it isn't about speculation. There's nothing to speculate about,

I guess that I meant more "the exercise" of rebalancing feats with ASIs - I certainly didn't mean that this thread ought to be about guessing what will come in the future - that's not what I meant. My use of the word "speculation" was more about speculating on what COULD be, not speculating on what WILL be, if that makes sense.

it is simply a question about 5E (2014!): which feats are basically weak enough that they should have an ASI when the don't?

Sure, I'll play.

In my 1st post I said that I would put ASI on:
Defensive duelist
Mage slayer
Metamagic adept.

I agree - and I think that Charger and Crossbow Expert don't need them. Charger might need - something - but not an ASI. CE is fine as-is, IMO.

Defensive Duelist would be DEC/INT
Mage Slayer would be INT/CON
Metmagic would be INT/CHA

IMO, and happy to be wrong.

 

[ezo]

Oh, I didn't mean to deny your thread-premise! It's just a problem that's likely to be solved.

"Solved" is debatable. 2024 will cause more problems (for me) than it will fix.

Sure, everyone has their own thing. My only question would be - if you're looking for a specific thing (such as rebalanced feats) and the new books have what you're looking for (let's, for the purposes of this question, assume that the feats WILL be rebalanced in a satisfying way - which obviously we have no way ATM to know that they will or won't be), then, why wouldn't you use the "new" versions?

Because I already have the books I need for 2014, and some simple feat adjustments is more cost effective than supporting WotC.

I guess that I meant more "the exercise" of rebalancing feats with ASIs - I certainly didn't mean that this thread ought to be about guessing what will come in the future - that's not what I meant. My use of the word "speculation" was more about speculating on what COULD be, not speculating on what WILL be, if that makes sense.

Sure, I'll play.

Bring it on!

I agree - and I think that Charger and Crossbow Expert don't need them. Charger might need - something - but not an ASI. CE is fine as-is, IMO.

For this "exercise", I won't be changing any feats other than possibly adding an ASI.

Defensive Duelist would be DEC/INT
Mage Slayer would be INT/CON
Metmagic would be INT/CHA

I could see those.

I can easily see DEX for Defensive Duelist, but why INT?
Mage Slayer I was actually thinking INT, WIS, or CHA (sort of giving a martial "insight" into a caster).
Metamagic as CHA is easily understandable, but why INT for this also?

IMO, and happy to be wrong.

No right or wrong, just opinions. These are as good as any others--including mine.