D&D 5E (2014 5E!) What feats need that missing ASI???

[FitzTheRuke]

"Solved" is debatable. 2024 will cause more problems (for me) than it will fix.

Will it? I'm not sure how you can tell yet, though I respect your opinion.

Because I already have the books I need for 2014, and some simple feat adjustments is more cost effective than supporting WotC.

I suppose. I mean, I get sticking it to the man, but I personally think that there's gonna be some good stuff there. We will see.

Bring it on! (For this "exercise", I won't be changing any feats other than possibly adding an ASI.

Fair enough.

I could see those.

Nice!

I can easily see DEX for Defensive Duelist, but why INT?

Fast thinking.

Mage Slayer I was actually thinking INT, WIS, or CHA (sort of giving a martial "insight" into a caster).

That's pretty good.

Metamagic as CHA is easily understandable, but why INT for this also?

Mmm... I like to leave options. Gotta be clever to mess with spells, natural power or not.

No right or wrong, just opinions. These are as good as any others--including mine.

I dig that attitude.

 

[ezo]

Will it? I'm not sure how you can tell yet, though I respect your opinion.

Just judging from the playtest matieral, etc. that has already come. Also, every new release tends to have some level of power creep, which is unfortunate, but apparently unavoidable. (Which I disagree with... but it isn't my company.)

I suppose. I mean, I get sticking it to the man, but I personally think that there's gonna be some good stuff there. We will see.

For most players and DMs, you're (unfornately IMO) probably right, since they seem to embrace MOAR in their games, which I generally don't.

Fast thinking.

That was my thought, but I figured I'd get clarification.

Mmm... I like to leave options. Gotta be clever to mess with spells, natural power or not.

Options are good, of course, but going INT on this one would encourage it to become a must have (to a point) for Wizards, in particular. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but encouraging metamagic to what many consider a very powerful class, improving its spellcasting ability modifier, would too easily put this on par with the top-tier feats IMO.

I guess something like that would require playtesting and a larger pool for discussion, but that is just my view on it.

After work I'll update the list I have. I like getting other views since it means there will probably be better balance and appeal overall.

 

[Horwath]

My question was more about which ASI would you put? Sorry for the confusion.

I generally favor agnostic ASI on all half feats so to open up more character concepts.

So all feats, +1 ASI of choice.
It really cuts down on metagame of what scores I need to buy at character creation so I have the desired scores at 12th level(or whatever level). And you might change your mind during campaign on what feats to take or will you multiclass or not.
having floating ASIs helps with that.

even allowing to take 2 half-feats without ASIs when you gain a feat slot if it works for your character concept.

 

[ezo]

Summary:
Alert - NO ASI
Great Weapon Master - NO ASI
Lucky - NO ASI
Polearm Master - NO ASI
Sentinel - NO ASI
Sharpshooter - NO ASI
Spell Sniper - NO ASI
Bountiful Luck - NO ASI
Prodigy - NO ASI

Charger - ???
Crossbow Expert - ???
Defensive Duelist - ???
Mage Slayer - ???
Metamagic Adept - ???

Summary Update:

Bountiful Luck - choose CON* or CHA
Defensive Duelist - choose DEX or INT
Mage Slayer - Choose INT, WIS, or CHA
Metamagic Adept - CHA

These are still undetermined:
Charger - ???
Crossbow Expert - ???
Prodigy - NO ASI

*Edited to add CON to Bountiful Luck (my oversight, I meant both halfling subraces to be represented)

 

[Horwath]

Summary Update:

Bountiful Luck - CHA
Defensive Duelist - choose DEX or INT
Mage Slayer - Choose INT, WIS, or CHA
Metamagic Adept - CHA

Why so fixed in ASIs?
Bountiful luck only Cha? Translate; better be Bard, Paladin, Sorcerer or Warlock!
Defensive duelist? STR needs more love than DEX, why exclusion?
Mage slayer sounds like someone who will primary use STR or DEX.
Metamagic Cha? So again not intended for wizards, cleric or druids?

These are still undetermined:
Charger - ???

Reduce bonus damage to prof bonus and ASI can be added

Crossbow Expert - ???

it is really strong feat.
maybe split the feat into two half feats if you really want it.

Prodigy - NO ASI

no reason to take Skill expert over this if this has an ASI
but, it's complete rubbish without it.
maybe add ASI to this feat and remove Skill expert from the game.

 

[ezo]

Why so fixed in ASIs?

Because what ability gets improved should be reflected in what the feat does, not just a free-for-all.

If you want to pick your ability, choose the normal ASI and not a feat.

Bountiful luck only Cha? Translate; better be Bard, Paladin, Sorcerer or Warlock!

Why? Cleric, Fighters (Intimidation is pretty standard fare), and Rogues all benefit from CHA if you want them to, and easily do so. You don't have to be just a CHA-based caster to benefit from it.

Besides, it was supposed to also be CON, but forgot to add it this morning (my fault for posting quickly before I rushed off to work...). Adding CON (which I meant to) makes it viable for everyone else really. I've updated the prior post.

Not everything needs to be a min/max decision. In fact, it is better if they aren't IMO.

Defensive duelist? STR needs more love than DEX, why exclusion?

Why would STR make sense? It is your reaction and quickness to intercept the attack with your own weapon. I might see an arguement for STR as well as DEX or INT, but certainly not to the exclusion of the others.

As it is with my current renditions, STR has 22 feats, DEX 23. Pretty even already. But, if you feel exclusion of STR would hamper STR-based martials, adding it wouldn't be a major issue.

Mage slayer sounds like someone who will primary use STR or DEX.

Not if the point is to gain an understanding of your enemy.

Since spellcasters use INT, WIS, or CHA, boosting those makes more sense IMO and can easily help martials anyway. I mean, honestly, if DEX is the physical god stat, WIS is the mental one...

Metamagic Cha? So again not intended for wizards, cleric or druids?

It is intended for anyone who wants metamagic and IME the feat is already strong. Eldritch Adept got CHA also for the same reason. Sorcerers and Warlock might take these feats to boost their class features, but I can't see that happening as much as them wanting other feats which aren't as redundent for them.

Reduce bonus damage to prof bonus and ASI can be added

Again, not changing any feats for this discussion, just adding ASIs or not. For Charger I am going with STR for now I think.

it is really strong feat.
maybe split the feat into two half feats if you really want it.

I'm fine with Crossbow Expert not having an ASI. I never thought of it as strong, frankly, and have never seen a player take it yet... in fact, most people IME consider it weak and/or lame in general. But, I know a lot of people here seem to think it is.

no reason to take Skill expert over this if this has an ASI
but, it's complete rubbish without it.
maybe add ASI to this feat and remove Skill expert from the game.

Yeah, this one still bugs me. I'm inclined to just let them both stand as is. Prodigy offers a nice blend (skill, language, and tool), unlike Linguist (all languages) or Skilled (all skills), along with an expertise. If you want that blend, it is better than Skill Expert, but otherwise Skill Expert would be better.

Sigh... I don't know about these two...

 

[ezo]

Current Version:

Yellow-background feats have no ASI currently:
Alert, Crossbow Expert, Great Weapon Master, Lucky, Polearm Master, Sentinel, Sharpshooter, Spell Sniper

Orange-background ASIs are RAW defaults.

Prodigy (darn it!) is still undecided... I am leaning towards CON and/or WIS as ASI options. They represent inherent health and inherent attunement to the world around the PC. Also, those are both strong ability scores which just about any PC can benefit from, and (see the totals) are both least represented. Maybe just CON...?

The total ASIs are pretty close!
STR 23, DEX 23, CON 18, INT 23, WIS 20, CHA 23.

 

[Horwath]

Because what ability gets improved should be reflected in what the feat does, not just a free-for-all.

Why not free for all?
half feat just means that the feat cannot stand on it's own with mechanics and it's not worth a full feat slot.

If you want to pick your ability, choose the normal ASI and not a feat.

OK, we come from opposite sides of this.

To me feat "slot" should be:
+2 ASI,
+1/+1 ASI,
1x full feat,
+1 ASI, 1xhalf feat,
2x half feat,

Why? Cleric, Fighters (Intimidation is pretty standard fare), and Rogues all benefit from CHA if you want them to, and easily do so. You don't have to be just a CHA-based caster to benefit from it.

Besides, it was supposed to also be CON, but forgot to add it this morning (my fault for posting quickly before I rushed off to work...). Adding CON (which I meant to) makes it viable for everyone else really. I've updated the prior post.

even with adding CON, you now are at situation that you have to start with 15 or 13 Con so you can "fix" that at 4th level or later, because odd scores are worthless except as a stepping stone to next improvement in modifier and that happens in 99% when pushing primary stat from 17 to 20.

Not everything needs to be a min/max decision. In fact, it is better if they aren't IMO.

no, it is really not. it just forces people to pre-plan their point buy more.

Why would STR make sense? It is your reaction and quickness to intercept the attack with your own weapon. I might see an arguement for STR as well as DEX or INT, but certainly not to the exclusion of the others.

well, from my Hema experience, you need certain amount of STR to parry or attacker will just break through your guard.

As it is with my current renditions, STR has 22 feats, DEX 23. Pretty even already. But, if you feel exclusion of STR would hamper STR-based martials, adding it wouldn't be a major issue.

if feats have fixed ASIs then having them balanced as much as possible should be the goal, again if you have all with floating +1, then you remove this problem in design and can focus on more important things.

Not if the point is to gain an understanding of your enemy.

then add Arcana proficiency to the feat if you want to know your (spellcasting) enemy.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Definitely not:

• Great Weapon Master
• Polearm Master
• Sharpshooter
• Crossbow Expert (would be fine without hand crossbow abuse)
• Lucky
• Alert
• War Caster

Re: Spell Sniper, does anyone who isn't a warlock ever take this?

 

[ezo]

Re: Spell Sniper, does anyone who isn't a warlock ever take this?

Most definitely. Although the combination with eldritch blast cantrip invocations is powerful, it is useful for any caster who casts attack spells into melee, which is half of them IME.

Why not free for all?
half feat just means that the feat cannot stand on it's own with mechanics and it's not worth a full feat slot.

Right, and it is complimented with an ASI related to what the rest of the feat does, like every other feature of what a feat does. You don't have full feats which have features that have nothing to do with each other.

OK, we come from opposite sides of this.

To me feat "slot" should be:
+2 ASI,
+1/+1 ASI,
1x full feat,
+1 ASI, 1xhalf feat,
2x half feat,

Which I can certainly understand, that just isn't the direction I am going for this discussion. My goal here is to give weaker feats the ASIs they are missing -- again, related to the feat, not free-floating.

even with adding CON, you now are at situation that you have to start with 15 or 13 Con so you can "fix" that at 4th level or later, because odd scores are worthless except as a stepping stone to next improvement in modifier and that happens in 99% when pushing primary stat from 17 to 20.

You are more in a situation where you can start with an odd score there, knowing you'll bump it to the next modifier when you take this feat. Of course, that is the case with ANY feat with an ASI, IMO.

no, it is really not. it just forces people to pre-plan their point buy more.

Again, only if you are min/maxing. Nothing wrong with that, of course, just nothing I am concerned with personally.

well, from my Hema experience, you need certain amount of STR to parry or attacker will just break through your guard.

Or you use your weapon to turn the attack aside, not just blocking it with your guard.

if feats have fixed ASIs then having them balanced as much as possible should be the goal, again if you have all with floating +1, then you remove this problem in design and can focus on more important things.

FWIW, I added STR anyway.

then add Arcana proficiency to the feat if you want to know your (spellcasting) enemy.

No changing the feats, though.

If I was changing feats, I would ammend the first part of Mage Slayer:

When a creature within 5 feet of you cas ts a spell, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against that creature. If this attack hits, the target must make a Concentration check or its spell is ruined.

But that would make it pretty darn powerful IMO.