Upcoming products will "touch on cultures that don't usually get exposure."

clearstream · Jan 14, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
Victorian imperialism was achieved as a consequence of getting a technological step up on the rest of the planet. War of the Worlds is an allegory for this. This, and many of the other original "Steampunk" novels are actively anti-imperialist. For another example 20000 Leagues under the Sea is also strongly anti-imperialist.

Lantan stands in direct contrast. They could have used their advanced technology to carve out an empire, and they chose not to. This makes them culturally very different to the British (Romans/Americans/humans).

I was thinking of their forays to other places through portals, to take resources. They feel to me a bit like British and other European nations privateer forays into Africa and Asia. In some ways it's an exciting period, until one takes the point of view of the inhabitants of those other places.

I suppose reflecting on my concerns, I have seen gamers several times recently responding to efforts for diversity with "what about" this digression into something closer to our mainstream or Western culture. I feel like gaming has an opportunity to amplify diversification and should be wary of detracting from it, which is subtle yet constant... an erosion. Hence I advocate responding to a thread about drawing inspiration from other cultures with simply direct celebration of that.

I'm not trying to say anyone is acting badly here. I don't think that's true. More thinking "should we stay aware of possible implicit biases"?

Paul Farquhar · Jan 14, 2019

clearstream said:
I'm not trying to say anyone is acting badly here. I don't think that's true. More thinking "should we stay aware of possible implicit biases"?

It is a very short step from being aware of bias in something and imposing our own bias onto something.

Lantan is pretty much the Forgotten Realms version of MCU Wakanda. And one could argue that Black Panther was wrong to end Wakandan isolationism. The desire to "help" other nations can be viewed as the thin end of the wedge of Wakandan imperialism.

Ymdar · Jan 14, 2019

Expectation: Tiki drinks with Moana&Mordenkainen
Reality: Wait, we don’t have enough on the Sword Coast!

gyor · Jan 16, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
It is a very short step from being aware of bias in something and imposing our own bias onto something.

Lantan is pretty much the Forgotten Realms version of MCU Wakanda. And one could argue that Black Panther was wrong to end Wakandan isolationism. The desire to "help" other nations can be viewed as the thin end of the wedge of Wakandan imperialism.

Are we just throwing the word imperialism around now? Given that Wakandan Imperialism invovles no invasions of other nation, no forced conversions to Wakandan religion, no spreading of disease, but rather the sharing of technology and knowledge, help for the poor and so on, Wakanda could bring it's "Imperialism" up here to Canada any day of the week.

Immortal Sun · Jan 16, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
Victorian imperialism was achieved as a consequence of getting a technological step up on the rest of the planet. War of the Worlds is an allegory for this.

I love HG Wells, but War of the Worlds is a terrible allegory for anything because the aliens have ZERO development behind them. They're just inscrutable aliens from another world who want to destroy everything we love for no apparent reason.

Most of the reasoning behind Imperialism was at least based on some general concept of "It's our duty to bring civilization to the uncivilized." The aliens in WotW don't even do that, they just exterminate humans for *reasons*.

Even the aliens in ID4 (arguably a modern take on WotW) had a motivation: they were space locusts. It's thin, but it's something.

Heck, I'd probably rate the YA series The Tripod Trilogy better than WotW. It's a classic, sure, but even those kids books have at least some development of the alien motivations.

Azzy · Jan 16, 2019

Immortal Sun said:
Most of the reasoning behind Imperialism was at least based on some general concept of "It's our duty to bring civilization to the uncivilized."

Imperialism is all about expansionism and taking other peoples' resources—be they land, spices, petroleum, etc. The "saving the savage barbarians from themselves" is just an excuse that an imperialist civilization makes to justify to themselves the theft, murder, rape, pillaging, and warfare they do.

Immortal Sun · Jan 16, 2019

Azzy said:
Imperialism is all about expansionism and taking other peoples' resources—be they land, spices, petroleum, etc. The "saving the savage barbarians from themselves" is just an excuse that an imperialist civilization makes to justify to themselves the theft, murder, rape, pillaging, and warfare they do.

I really, really don't want to get into an imperialism debate. My point was to illustrate that there is reasoning and rationalization behind imperialism. It wasn't "I want to go over there to murder people." which is the motivation behind the aliens in WotW.

Azzy · Jan 16, 2019

Immortal Sun said:
I really, really don't want to get into an imperialism debate. My point was to illustrate that there is reasoning and rationalization behind imperialism. It wasn't "I want to go over there to murder people." which is the motivation behind the aliens in WotW.

Fair enough, and I agree with your assessment of WotW.

LuisCarlos17f · Jan 16, 2019

If you are talking about imperialism you should take care your words about god-emperor Leto II Atreides and his saint crusade. If freemen from Arrakis appears front of your home preaching abou their god-emperor you have to welcome them. ;-)

Sorry, but if you want to use speculative fiction to use analogies about historical facts you should notice the opinion by some people is now it isn't the best time for the self-criticism when we have to fix more important things.

* Where to find information about the "Kara-Tur" of Greyhawk?

* If there is a return of a-Quadim, then the pre-islamic politheist pantheons could be interesting factions causing conflicts with Zakharian gods.

* What do you think about a crossover with a reboot of Jakandar?

* Do you remember the mini-setting "Dragon Fist"?

* We will see a new Oriental Adventures but I could bet Kara-Tur will be remade for an easier adaptations to videogames for Asian players.

* Isn't it funny? If a Northamerican squad destroys an alien ship in the saga "Stargate" they are heroes, but if it is done by the fictional equivalent of Hernan Cortez or Franciso Pizarro (like the Spanish sci-fi novels "la saga de los Aznar" then it is a crimen.

Paul Farquhar · Jan 16, 2019

gyor said:
Are we just throwing the word imperialism around now? Given that Wakandan Imperialism invovles no invasions of other nation, no forced conversions to Wakandan religion, no spreading of disease, but rather the sharing of technology and knowledge, help for the poor and so on, Wakanda could bring it's "Imperialism" up here to Canada any day of the week.

It's called "soft power", and it's how both Britain and the USA continue to exercise imperial power by dressing it up as "foreign aid".

The UK spends around 13-14 billion per year on foreign aid. If you think they do that out of the goodness of their hearts you haven't met a politician.

Upcoming products will "touch on cultures that don't usually get exposure."

clearstream

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