[New DM Question] What about Simultaneous Movement?

Hi, I played D&D in some earlier editions, but have recently started DMing with the 5E Starter Set. We only have the Basic Rules — no PHB or DMG.

I have a question about the possibility of simulating "simultaneous movement" during a single round. I figure the lack of "simultaneity" has been question in most editions of D&D.

Here's the thing. One of my players (who is mostly new to D&D) has gotten kind of miffed for how he "can't" choose to run alongside another character during an encounter. We've only been playing for a few sessions, and it's come up twice.

SPOILER ALERT FOR STARTER SET / LOST MINE OF PHANDELVER

#1) Once, in the Goblin Ambush encounter, he said he wanted to run along behind the ox cart as another character drove it down the trail. He was intending to use the moving cart as partial cover from goblin arrows. Okay makes sense. But the driver (and thus, the oxen) had a higher initiative, and though he called out "follow me!", when the oxen took a Dash, the cart was like 80' down the road by the end of the driver's turn.

So then it's the Goblins' turn and the cart is nearly out of the scene. And the running PC (who hasn't even moved yet) is standing out like sitting duck. And they target him and pepper him with arrows.

So the player is like: "I said I was going to stay with the cart, to use it for cover!"

Well, so we had a bit of a rules debate. (Neither of us being very familiar with the rules yet.)

Then I remembered the "Ready" action, and we looked it up. I was like: "Okay, if you want to run along with the cart. Then the driver would need to Ready an action to wait for you." (Kind of like Delay in 3E.)

But then we realized...on a Readied reaction, you can only move up to your Speed (In this case, 40' for the ox). So you can't Dash. (I mean, the running character could Dash on his turn, but then he'd get ahead of the cart!)

Plus, the driver would no longer be able to Dodge on their turn, since they Readied instead of Dodged.

We were all like: "Why is there no way for two characters to Dash together?"

#2) The second instance was in an assault on Cragmaw Hideout. After having scouted out the cave earlier (with heavy setbacks due to wet surprises), their plan was to run together, make an all-out Dash from the entrance, past the bridge, all the way to the top of the slope, in order to reach the pond before the Goblins could respond. Okay, makes sense.

So I have the three PC lined up at the cave entrance, ready to sprint. Roll for initiative…ready, set, go! Then I have the character with the highest initiative move first. By then end of his turn, he has Dashed past the bridge.

Then it's the Goblin's turn, who turns and shoots at that character's back.

And the player is like: "Hey, we were all planning to run together! Why am I sticking out like this? If we were running together, he could've targeted any three of us."

So, I was like: "Well, you could've Readied an action to run when the slowest party member begins to run."

But then he made the point that: "But on a Readied reaction, you can only Move your speed. You can't Dash."

Okay. So basically, the Rules As Written don't provide a way for characters to intentionally Dash simultaneously (within a combat round)…which would seem to be possible in Real Life.

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I have read the Sage Advice about why Delay was removed from the game, since it throws a wrench into the whole concept of Initiative, and is subject to abuse especially in regard to spell durations. And I grok that.

Yet, within an encounter, there ought to be a way to intentionally do something (at least Move or Dash) simultaneously.

I basically see two non-solutions and one solution:

1) Honor the RAW, and say you can only Move together, and even then, only by the higher initiative PC Readying an action (and thus losing both their Attack and Reaction). It's impossible to Dash together. Honors the rules, but doesn't seem very true to life. People sprint next to each other in track-and-field, etc.

2) Honor the RAW, but suggest that the PCs don't bother with Readying to Move together. Just explain to the player that actually it is all simultaneous, since all the turns take place within the same 6 second round. It's just that within the game, it appears to be happening sequentially. But in the actual story, the events unfolded nearly simultaneously. But still hard to explain why the PC in front (or the PC left behind) sticks out so much as a target. As a DM I could try to keep in mind their "supposed" togetherness (which is not apparent on the playing grid) when choosing which PC to target.

3) Maybe my campaign needs two houseruled special actions: Move Together and Dash Together:

Move Together: Two or more allies, who are able to communicate, can choose to Move Together. The higher initiative PC(s) take one Action on their turn, but then use their Reaction to Move when the slowest character Moves. (In other words, they don't lose their Action by having to Ready. They only lose their Reaction.)

Dash Together: On their turn, the higher initiative PC(s) take no action (except possibly a bonus action). On the turn of the slowest PC, and they all Dash Together. This uses up the Reaction of the higher initiative PCs, but not of the slowest PC. And then the regular initiative order resumes.

…Or is simultaneous movement covered in the PHB/DMG somewhere?

This probably won't come up enough to require a house rule, so I recommend just ruling what makes sense in the moment to you based on how much you value using the rules versus what you think is a reasonable thing to do given the fictional context. That's why we have DMs instead of computers - to decide on these things in the moment.

You are in a very familiar situation that most of us have been in. And truthfully, the answer to your question is right in your #3... make a ruling that makes sense for your table.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying that a PC can run alongside and behind a wagon, especially considering the actions are Dashes and thus not even combat per se. That's a perfect example of just waving away the "rules as written" and doing something that makes narrative sense.

Many parts of D&D try and establish rules for the game, but don't make sense for the story. But if your players want to make a narrative choice that makes sense, go ahead and let them. It will make them happy and it will enhance your sense of reality and visualization of the encounter.

Dealing with the Initiative conundrum is one that all of us go through. Another perfect example is everyone all together in like a Mexican standoff situation, and one character in the group decides to suddenly act and thus trigger combat. Same situation of course though... everyone rolls initiative, and somehow the guy who initiated combat ends up going LAST because of a bad roll. Now yes, the explanation will be that everyone "saw" the guy start to attack and thus everyone just jumped the gun and all ended up going first... but that's usually not satisfying either (especially considering all the actions involve running around the battlefield in addition to attacking, and the guy who started the attack just stands there with pudding in hand.)

In situations like that, I have absolutely no qualms about putting the guy who initiated combat at the top of the initiative round and then everyone else falls in behind him. Because rulings, not rules.

Do what makes most sense for your table, and hang what the book says if you don't like it. You don't get any awards for "playing Rules As Written", so don't feel you need to if another ruling outside of the book makes sense.

For the cart scenario, you could just have the guy hang on to the cart, so he moves when it moves. But yeah, you have to let common sense take over and allow them to move simultaneously one way or another, or it makes a mockery of the scene. So for the second example, I'd just let them all run together on one initiative count - doesn't matter which one.

I agree with the others that making a ruling and let everyone move together on a turn makes sense in the scenarios you describe.

For your second example I would add one thing: surprise. I get the impression that the goblin didn't know the characters were there before the mad dash. Therefore it shouldn't have shot at whatever character was visible first. Rather, it would've been surprised and spent the first turn to stop being surprised. It then gets a shot off at the last target as they run around the corner, which probably is the character with the lowest initiative. In this case the narrative and the initiative could've made sense together.

Still, a ruling on moving together might make sense. If it only comes up when making a mad dash past enemies you could maybe even handle it outside initiative.

I imagine the characters using dash and only being targets for one round. Cover and such is constant for the whole dash. Just say that the characters dash past, taking one round of attacks. Roll all attacks at the same time. No need for initiative if the characters only dash and the enemies just attack.

The example above can be expanded with more attacks if characters are exposed longer.

Al2O3 said:

For your second example I would add one thing: surprise. I get the impression that the goblin didn't know the characters were there before the mad dash. Therefore it shouldn't have shot at whatever character was visible first. Rather, it would've been surprised and spent the first turn to stop being surprised. It then gets a shot off at the last target as they run around the corner, which probably is the character with the lowest initiative. In this case the narrative and the initiative could've made sense together.

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That's a valid point, yet I had I purposely ruled that the Goblin wasn't surprised, since two of the three PCs had Light spells cast on their gear. (Plus the same Goblins had repulsed an assault the previous day.)

Still, glad for your feedback and example in regard to possibly not rolling Initiative for a mad dash, and also in regard to constant moving cover (the ox cart).

I thought that the person driving the wagon would hold his initiative until the person running behind was ready. This way that would act at the same time. The driver could drive off on his turn but looked behind him to ask if the other PC was ready and is holding his action. It so happens that the goblins act while he is holding his action, but before the runner is ready. I would still give partial cover or 3/4 cover to the runner, but the driver may be toast.

DEFCON 1 said:

You are in a very familiar situation that most of us have been in. And truthfully, the answer to your question is right in your #3... make a ruling that makes sense for your table.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying that a PC can run alongside and behind a wagon, especially considering the actions are Dashes and thus not even combat per se. That's a perfect example of just waving away the "rules as written" and doing something that makes narrative sense.

Many parts of D&D try and establish rules for the game, but don't make sense for the story. But if your players want to make a narrative choice that makes sense, go ahead and let them. It will make them happy and it will enhance your sense of reality and visualization of the encounter.

Dealing with the Initiative conundrum is one that all of us go through. Another perfect example is everyone all together in like a Mexican standoff situation, and one character in the group decides to suddenly act and thus trigger combat. Same situation of course though... everyone rolls initiative, and somehow the guy who initiated combat ends up going LAST because of a bad roll. Now yes, the explanation will be that everyone "saw" the guy start to attack and thus everyone just jumped the gun and all ended up going first... but that's usually not satisfying either (especially considering all the actions involve running around the battlefield in addition to attacking, and the guy who started the attack just stands there with pudding in hand.)

In situations like that, I have absolutely no qualms about putting the guy who initiated combat at the top of the initiative round and then everyone else falls in behind him. Because rulings, not rules.

Do what makes most sense for your table, and hang what the book says if you don't like it. You don't get any awards for "playing Rules As Written", so don't feel you need to if another ruling outside of the book makes sense.

Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing your experience in regard to the similar situation of a Mexican standoff. Right: rulings, not rules.

aco175 said:

I thought that the person driving the wagon would hold his initiative until the person running behind was ready. This way that would act at the same time. The driver could drive off on his turn but looked behind him to ask if the other PC was ready and is holding his action. It so happens that the goblins act while he is holding his action, but before the runner is ready. I would still give partial cover or 3/4 cover to the runner, but the driver may be toast.

Click to expand...

Right, that narrative would match the R.A.W. for the first round; but then the second round of movement, we're still in the same paradox. So in round two, the driver Dashes the oxen forward 60', and the guy running behind the cart is left behind again, exposed without cover. Even though he said he was jogging along behind the cart. Until it's his turn, and then he "catches up" to the cart again. Only to be exposed again, catch up again, and so forth.

Without houseruled "Move Together" and "Dash Together" special actions (or the good "hand-waved rulings" suggestions from previous posters), this disconnect between narrative and rules seems to be inevitable.

Travis Henry said:

But then we realized...on a Readied reaction, you can only move up to your Speed (In this case, 40' for the ox). So you can't Dash. (I mean, the running character could Dash on his turn, but then he'd get ahead of the cart!)

Click to expand...

This interpretation seems incorrect to me.
The cart driver Readies the Dash Action, which triggers when the PC behind the cart says to "Go!" On his turn, the PC behind the cart says "Go" and they then Dash together.
The Dash Action allows both players to move twice their normal movement. There is no restriction against using the Dash Action in conjunction with Ready.