Why do you play games other than D&D?

I run two versions of D&D; 4e and Moldvay Basic. So the answer is while D&D 4e can scratch an itch similar to Mouse Guard, Cortex+ , Dungeon World, and Mouse Guard, it and Moldvay Basic can't reproduce Dogs in the Vineyard, Apocalypse World, Dread, Blades in the Dark, Torchbearer, My Life With Master, Sorcerer, and Star Wars like Strike (!) and Scum and Villainy.

Because system matters.
 

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pogre

Legend
Rules matter. Which, is a shorthand way of saying I agree with the OP's reasons. Different systems give a different feel to the game.

I used to play a LOT of different RPGs. These days, I play almost exclusively 5e.
- I like the game.
- I never have to sell the concept.
- There is a seemingly endless supply of players.
- Almost all of my miniatures and terrain are tailored for fantasy rpgs.

I would prefer to play Ars Magica or even WFRP, but 5e is good, and for the above reasons, that is almost all we play these days.
 

DrunkonDuty

he/him
I play other games for the system. Yeah, sure you can play any game with any system.

BUT it's more fun to play a game with a system that supports the style of the game being run.

A game like Ars Magica can't easily be done in any DnD system. You would have to house rule the system so much it would bare no resemblance to DnD. You could build an Ars Magica look alike with GURPS or HERO. But why bother when there's already Ars Magica?

So if there's a style of game I want to play I'll do it with a system that adds-to/enhances/supports (choose your synonym) that style. If I want to run a game with a lot of politicking and social interaction DnD is NOT what I'd want. L5R does it much better. (Hell, Exalted probably does it better. Hard to tell, the rules are sooooo complicated.)

DnD does gonzo fantasy*. If I want something different (and I usually do) I'll go with something else.



*There was a discussion here or maybe the HERO forums where someone coined this term for the genre that DND represents. I think this is the best description for it that I have heard.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
A game like Ars Magica can't easily be done in any DnD system. You would have to house rule the system so much it would bare no resemblance to DnD.
What I recall of Ars Magica is a medieval world ruled by mages, opposed by a divine dominion? You were expected to play a mage, but could play a custos, a powerless bodyguard of a mage, if you really wanted to.

Apart from the inherent honesty of the presentation, and the details of the magic system, sounds right up D&D's alley.
 

ccs

41st lv DM
What I recall of Ars Magica is a medieval world ruled by mages, opposed by a divine dominion? You were expected to play a mage, but could play a custos, a powerless bodyguard of a mage, if you really wanted to.

Apart from the inherent honesty of the presentation, and the details of the magic system, sounds right up D&D's alley.

Well, if you played it "correctly", as in how the book described the game, each of you were supposed to create a mage + at least one of the supporting non-mage characters. And then 1 person played their mage, the rest the custos, & 1 person DMd (forget what they called it) for an adventure. Then a new adventure & the roles rotated with someone else playing a mage, yadada yadda yadda.
So everyone DM'd, everyone got a turn as their mage, & everyone played custos.
It was a pretty neat idea.
I never actually saw it happen.
 

Jer

Legend
Supporter
Well, if you played it "correctly", as in how the book described the game, each of you were supposed to create a mage + at least one of the supporting non-mage characters. And then 1 person played their mage, the rest the custos, & 1 person DMd (forget what they called it) for an adventure. Then a new adventure & the roles rotated with someone else playing a mage, yadada yadda yadda.
So everyone DM'd, everyone got a turn as their mage, & everyone played custos.
It was a pretty neat idea.
I never actually saw it happen.

Troupe style play! Yes - that's almost how we played Ars in college. Almost because it was more often the case that we'd have more than one of the wizards in the group and we each had multiple henchmen that we could choose from. (I actually enjoyed playing my henchmen characters more because, well, I was an Ars newb and didn't know the magic system inside and out like some of the others did, but I sure could play the heck out of the comedy sidekick character.)
 

Arilyn

Hero
Ars Magica is one of my favourite games. The magic system is nothing like D&D. Mages don't have slots or spell points, and skilled mages can easily make up simple magical effects on the fly. More powerful spells are very hard to pull off, so you might want to have researched your spells ahead of time. There are example spells in the game, but mages spend a lot of time researching and collecting vis (magical bits from plants, critters,etc.) in order to create their own spells and improve their artes.

Players usually have one mage, a companion and a grog. Companions don't have magic, but are specialists. They are competent, but lack raw power. Grogs are the guards. They have simpler sheets, and die often. Think red shirts. So you could have an adventure where the mages are heading off for a symposium with another covenant. The players use their wizards to deal with the political machinations at the hosting covenant. This can be broken up with the players using their companions to solve a mystery perhaps, or maybe the wizards need them to accomplish a mission. Meanwhile, the grogs could be getting into drunken brawls. Play sessions don't necessarily have to have all your characters. You could have a pure grog or companion session.

There is usually long gaps between adventures. A campaign could take many decades, or even longer, if the players want to take their covenant from its beginnings to its inevitable decay/destruction.

There are no levels. You get points to spend on increasing your skills. The world is authentically medieval Europe. Monsters are rare, and ones you would expect to find in a bestiary from the time period.

You couldn't cram it into a dnd rule set at all.
 

It has to do with being a representative sample and the bias that self-selection introduces to the data collection process. [GenCon Attendees] won’t have nearly as random a selection of hobby participants as data collected from, say, a list of 1000 people who bought games from a set of websites or a similar number of people selected entering or leaving game stores.

In my 42 or so years of personal experience in the hobby across 3 states and 5 cities, I’ve only gamed with 2 other people who ever attended an RPG convention...and they went with me. If you expand the selection parameters to include CCG tournaments, I get to about a dozen.

I doubt that my experiences are typical, however. In fact, based on my time at ENWorld, I suspect they’re not.

So while the GenCon crowd may be an actual mirror to the hobby’s general demographics, odds are pretty good that it isn’t.

As a statistician, there is always the question "can I generalize from sample to population". I am thoroughly aware of the problem, and the pitfalls. It's impossible to be completely sure that the sample is representative. We don't have a lot of random sample data for gamers; it's nearly all self-selection of one form or another. One form of data we do have quite a bit of, and multiple years of, is the gen con event data. Yes, it's heavily self-selected. But that doesn't mean it is unrepresentative of game preferences. The default hypothesis is that is *is* representative, so let's look at why it might not be.

One poster suggested that Gen Con attendees have more money and/or free time. This makes a big difference in many other preference situations -- political affiliation being a prime example. However no-one seems convinced that there is a link between either money / free time and gaming preferences, certainly no-one seems willing to say it makes a big difference, so that argument seems weak.

You state that a very small percentage of your associates go to conventions. That in itself is not really an issue -- what is on debate is whether they are different sorts of people from the overall population. Unfortunately, you have only 2 cases to consider, so you can't really draw any conclusions -- too little data.

This may seem like a minor thing, but so many arguments and threads talk about "what gamers like" or "what is played" or industry trends and we have so little fact to go on. People who buy things online, as well as people who buy things from stores are also strongly self-selecting, and I could make a decent argument that they are more likely to be biased in tastes then convention-goers (e.g. people who prefer out of print games will have strongly different buying habits than those who like D&D 5E).

To do a great job, we would randomly phone people (using a known mix of cell-phone and landlines reflecting the overall US division) and ask simple questions like "have you played one or more roleplaying games this last month" and if they answer yes, collect information on what those games were and how frequently they played each. That would give us a pretty good unbiased sample (phone calls are currently the best randomizer available short of tracking people down census-style -- they're pretty good actually). But absent that info, I haven't seen anything other than "gut feeling" to suggest that Gen Con attendees are not reflective of the overall community in terms of game preferences.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
One thing I’ve noted from non-American gamers is that gaming seems to be a more diverse hobby overseas.

Every gaming convention I’ve been to- GenCon isn’t one- has been overwhelmingly white and male, demographically. And that’s largely reflected in the game groups I’ve been a member of. Most times, I’m the only minority at the table, save one which was 1/3 each white, asian, and black. (And that one was still 100% male.) There was also one group that was 50/50 men & women, including one gay male.*

While the hobby is still most likely a largely a North American one, the number of non-American participants is significantly large enough to imagine that GenCon’s demographics are not necessarily typical of the hobby as a whole.





* one of my personal favorite guys to game with, FWIW.
 


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