LordEntrails
Hero
Oh, hope you don't mind me tagging you [MENTION=83242]dave2008[/MENTION], would appreciate your feedback as well.
D&D 5E New Creature Critique - Dagonspawn
Leatherhead
Possibly a Idiot.
Well, oozes have an INT of 1, and they are literally brainless, so an arbitrarily low number that isn't 0 is appropriate for such things.
Well that is good. Not exactly the ideal encounter, but a good point of reference for the worst case scenario.
Hah! Well the first encounter is probably going to hach, if for no other reason than the PC's don't fully understand what is going on. I think there should be a separate mechanic than hit points, if only so a smarter group of PC's who want to wail on the egg can't keep it from hatching indefinably. There is also a very real possibility that the party can become trapped in a perpetual encounter with a monster that heals itself, and this monster in particular has a state where it doesn't attack anything. You want to have a way to side step that problem, as a fail-safe should it arise.
True.
Also an acceptable mechanic, but it may be a bit too random if you want to save a plot important NPC from dying. Inflicting exhaustion levels might be a way to go.
Well here is the problem, why keep an unconscious victim in their grasp until the victim dies, if it takes days to kill the victim, and the Embryo gains literally nothing from having the victim grappled for all that time invested?
The Embryo should want to kill the victim, as of right now, it's just wasting it's time playing with the unconscious body for no gain.
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dave2008
Legend
When I get a chance I will take a look - just swamped at work at the moment.
LordEntrails
Hero
I'm ok if it doesn't hatch story-wise. That's a reward to the PC's if they manage that. If they didn't then go and kill it, it would leave a plot for the future where the PCs have left behind a ticking time bomb!
To play with its food? But yea. Comes back to the problem of needing two timelines, the story time and the dramatic combat timelines. If it kills a victim in a matter of minutes, then that means their would be lots of missing people. Too many for the story, and it would hatch really quickly. But then their needs to be the dramatic sequence in that victims die while the party is there and their is the immediate danger of hatching/spawning.
Maybe one exhaustion level per day when unconscious and it gains hitpoints only once per day. Then it would be beneficial to keep victims around (though still faster than ideal for the story), but the story timeline would be more reasonable. It would also mean that new victims, if available, would be more beneficial, but once unconscious would still be around for almost a week.
LordEntrails
Hero
Ok, next incantation. Fixed the speed and dex on the embryonic and changed the Abyssal Drain mechanic for the unconscious victims. Re-vamped the Newborn to make it more interesting and dangerous (i.e. the blindsight, darkness, fear and confusion).
Dagonspawn, Embryonic
Medium fiend (demon), chaotic evil
Armor Class 13 (natural armor)
Hit Points 50 (6d8 + 18)
Speed 0 ft.
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
15 1 16 12 12 10
Saving Throws Con +6, Wis +5
Damage Resistances bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks
Damage Immunities poison
Condition Immunities blinded, charmed, frightened, poisoned, prone, restrained, and unconscious
Senses blindsense 90ft., passive Perception 11
Languages Abyssal
Challenge 3 (700 XP)
Traits
Hardened Shell
The cocoon (but not the Abyssal Tentacles) has resistance to bludgeoning, slashing and piercing damage from non-magical attacks and is immune to blinded, charmed, frightened, poisoned, prone, restrained, and unconscious conditions.
Abyssal Tentacles
The dagonspawn has 12 tentacles. Each tentacle has 2 hit points, AC 13. The dagonspawn can regenerate a destroyed tentacle the two turns after it is destroyed, if it chooses to. Regenerating a tentacle reduces the current hit points of the dagonspawn by 10 hit points. Damage done to a tentacle does not harm the dagonspawn.
Abyssal Drain
While being grappled by a tentacle a creature suffers 2 necrotic damage at the start of the dagonspawn's turn and the dagonspawn gains 2 hit points to the dagonspawn’s maximum hit points, unless the creature is at zero hit points when they suffer this effect. In that case, they take no necrotic damage and once per day they gain one level of exhaustion and the dagonspawn gains 2 hit points. Creatures that die from an abyssal drain cannot be resurrected or raised from the dead. A creature can suffer no more than one abyssal drain per turn.
Embryonic Form
The hit point maximum of an embryonic dagonspawn is determined by the hit points of the newborn dagonspawn it will become if it is hatched, 113 (15d8 + 45) hit points. The Abyssal Drain trait enables the dagonspawn to gain more hit points than it starts with, when the creature reaches its maximum hit points, it hatches and becomes a Newborn Dagonspawn.
Actions
Multiattack
The dagonspawn can make four tentacle slam attacks per turn.
Tentacle Slam
Melee weapon attack: +3 to hit, reach 20 ft., one target. Hit: 4 (1d4+2) bludgeoning damage and the target is grappled. On subsequent turns, a grappled creature is subject to an Abyssal Drain effect. A creature can use its action to make a DC15 grapple check to attempt to free itself from the tentacle.
Dagonspawn, Newborn
Medium fiend (demon), chaotic evil
Armor Class 13 (natural armor)
Hit Points 113 (15d8 + 45)
Speed 30 ft.
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
15 12 16 14 12 10
Saving Throws Con +6, Wis +5
Damage Resistances cold, fire, lightning
Damage Immunities poison
Condition Immunities poisoned
Senses blindsight 30ft., darkvision 120ft., passive Perception 11
Languages Abyssal
Challenge 3 (700 XP)
Traits
Magic Resistance
The dagonspawn has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.
Innate Spellcasting
The dagonspawn’s innate spellcasting ability is Intelligence (spell save DC 12). The dagonspawn can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components:
At-will: darkness, dispel magic, fear
2/day each: confusion
1/day each: thunderwave
Actions
Multiattack
The dagonspawn can make two melee (claw) attacks.
Claw
Melee weapon attack: +6 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d8 + 2) slashing damage plus 9 (2d8) poison damage.
Dagonspawn, Embryonic
Medium fiend (demon), chaotic evil
Armor Class 13 (natural armor)
Hit Points 50 (6d8 + 18)
Speed 0 ft.
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
15 1 16 12 12 10
Saving Throws Con +6, Wis +5
Damage Resistances bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks
Damage Immunities poison
Condition Immunities blinded, charmed, frightened, poisoned, prone, restrained, and unconscious
Senses blindsense 90ft., passive Perception 11
Languages Abyssal
Challenge 3 (700 XP)
Traits
Hardened Shell
The cocoon (but not the Abyssal Tentacles) has resistance to bludgeoning, slashing and piercing damage from non-magical attacks and is immune to blinded, charmed, frightened, poisoned, prone, restrained, and unconscious conditions.
Abyssal Tentacles
The dagonspawn has 12 tentacles. Each tentacle has 2 hit points, AC 13. The dagonspawn can regenerate a destroyed tentacle the two turns after it is destroyed, if it chooses to. Regenerating a tentacle reduces the current hit points of the dagonspawn by 10 hit points. Damage done to a tentacle does not harm the dagonspawn.
Abyssal Drain
While being grappled by a tentacle a creature suffers 2 necrotic damage at the start of the dagonspawn's turn and the dagonspawn gains 2 hit points to the dagonspawn’s maximum hit points, unless the creature is at zero hit points when they suffer this effect. In that case, they take no necrotic damage and once per day they gain one level of exhaustion and the dagonspawn gains 2 hit points. Creatures that die from an abyssal drain cannot be resurrected or raised from the dead. A creature can suffer no more than one abyssal drain per turn.
Embryonic Form
The hit point maximum of an embryonic dagonspawn is determined by the hit points of the newborn dagonspawn it will become if it is hatched, 113 (15d8 + 45) hit points. The Abyssal Drain trait enables the dagonspawn to gain more hit points than it starts with, when the creature reaches its maximum hit points, it hatches and becomes a Newborn Dagonspawn.
Actions
Multiattack
The dagonspawn can make four tentacle slam attacks per turn.
Tentacle Slam
Melee weapon attack: +3 to hit, reach 20 ft., one target. Hit: 4 (1d4+2) bludgeoning damage and the target is grappled. On subsequent turns, a grappled creature is subject to an Abyssal Drain effect. A creature can use its action to make a DC15 grapple check to attempt to free itself from the tentacle.
Dagonspawn, Newborn
Medium fiend (demon), chaotic evil
Armor Class 13 (natural armor)
Hit Points 113 (15d8 + 45)
Speed 30 ft.
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
15 12 16 14 12 10
Saving Throws Con +6, Wis +5
Damage Resistances cold, fire, lightning
Damage Immunities poison
Condition Immunities poisoned
Senses blindsight 30ft., darkvision 120ft., passive Perception 11
Languages Abyssal
Challenge 3 (700 XP)
Traits
Magic Resistance
The dagonspawn has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.
Innate Spellcasting
The dagonspawn’s innate spellcasting ability is Intelligence (spell save DC 12). The dagonspawn can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components:
At-will: darkness, dispel magic, fear
2/day each: confusion
1/day each: thunderwave
Actions
Multiattack
The dagonspawn can make two melee (claw) attacks.
Claw
Melee weapon attack: +6 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d8 + 2) slashing damage plus 9 (2d8) poison damage.
Leatherhead
Possibly a Idiot.
OK, now for some polish.
Of note: Fear and Darkness don't play well together, but using Fear and Confusion at the same time makes up for that. Allowing the Newborn to employ two different sets of tactics depending on circumstances. Thunderwave is a bit of an odd pick that doesn't seem to fully fit the theme that the rest of the stats are suggesting. It's not a deal-breaker by any means, but it does seem to be tacked on for the sake of having an AoE attack spell.
I'm not too sure what you mean by "Dagonspawn", but I am assuming it is related to Dagon, who rules the 89th layer of the Abyss, that or the guy from HP Lovecraft. But either way it should probably be amphibious and have a swim speed. I could also direct you to Dagon's 3rd edition stat block, if you are interesting in cribbing ideas from that. Though you are mostly spot on for what I would think a newborn should have.
You can knock a Tentacle prone or Charm it? Also, can you AoE damage the Tentacles? This is something that needs to be clarified. If you can AoE, for example, the entire encounter can be won by someone casting a single cantrip.
That's a really hefty HP cost for the Embryo. It also makes it so that most t1 characters (levels 1-4) will almost always want to attack the tentacle instead of the shell because the damage return is so good. Reduce the HP drain significantly so that there is a clear trade off.
Hit point maximum sidesteps the problem of a perpetual encounter, but now it seems like the Embryo doesn't actually heal, it just raises it's hit point cap.
Much more intimidating now. However, I would give it the ability to see in magical darkness (or at least it's own darkness) so that it can employ it's darkness spellcasting ability to full effect and become absolutely terrifying.
Of note: Fear and Darkness don't play well together, but using Fear and Confusion at the same time makes up for that. Allowing the Newborn to employ two different sets of tactics depending on circumstances. Thunderwave is a bit of an odd pick that doesn't seem to fully fit the theme that the rest of the stats are suggesting. It's not a deal-breaker by any means, but it does seem to be tacked on for the sake of having an AoE attack spell.
I'm not too sure what you mean by "Dagonspawn", but I am assuming it is related to Dagon, who rules the 89th layer of the Abyss, that or the guy from HP Lovecraft. But either way it should probably be amphibious and have a swim speed. I could also direct you to Dagon's 3rd edition stat block, if you are interesting in cribbing ideas from that. Though you are mostly spot on for what I would think a newborn should have.
Quickleaf
Legend
[MENTION=6804070]LordEntrails[/MENTION] I think you're on the right track now. I would cut the Hardened Shell trait entirely because it's superfluous. Just like whatever resistances / condition immunities in the normal place for the monster (like you've done), and then under Abyssal Tentacles note how the tentacles are damaged differently.
LordEntrails
Hero
I don't think you can knock a tentacle prone... I guess you could knock one around, but it wouldn't give you any advantage and since the tentacle doesn't have movement, only reach, I don't think it matters does it?
Does it seem wrong that you couldn't charm a tentacle? It's more like a plant at this point, the embryo doesn't have full sentience.
I know about the AoE vulnerability for the tentacles. And I think that's ok. A big weakness, if the players think of it (mine didn't). Thoughts? I think by lower the tentacle regen cost (below), it will make it not so vulnerable.
Ok, but remember, players hopefully don't know the creature stats, so they won't know the trade-offs that intimately. I do think to lower the cost to 5 hit points. Basically it takes 3 turns to make it worthwhile. Not something the embryo would benefit from if the players know to go after the tentacles, but if they don't, and it regens a tentacle, they might just think that there is no purpose to keep going after the tentacles.
I like the uncertainty it provides. It puts some of the wonder back into the game
Does this not make it obvious that it gains hit point, and allows the HP max to increase? How better to word this?
I didn't want to give it Devil Sight, doesn't Blindsight give it enough to make it functional in darkness? Not 100%, but much better than the PCs right?
Several of the demons from VtGM and MM have both fear and darkness, so that's where I got that from. I added Thunderwave because I didn't want to create a new spell, but I wanted something like an aura that could be used to push creatures away from it, only once though. Kind of like a burst of emergence, if it needed such.
Yep, Dagon from the 89th layer of the Abyss
Basically a break away cult of kuo-toa who worship dagon and are trying to hatch an agent of Dagon in the material plane. Not Dagon itself, but one of his lesser agents/demons. Some other day I might make higher CR version of it, but for this adventure this is all that's needed.
LordEntrails
Hero
Wasn't sure about that. Removed the Hardened Shell trait. I think the tentacle trait adequately indicates that damage to the tentacles doesn't hurt the embryo. Or did I miss something?
Leatherhead
Possibly a Idiot.
It's mostly an artifact of giving the tentacles a mini stat block. The wording makes it unclear as to what can effect the tentacles. Though I do think that you should be able to shove a tentacle off of someone. Another thing to clear up, what are the saving throws of the tentacles?
Even with lower cost regen it's way to powerful. A player can basically shut this thing down with one action, by accident.
Well yes, normal group wouldn't think to attack them more than once, especially after they grow back, but presumably someone could use a knowledge check or ask a sage about it. While they don't have the exact numbers, knowing that attacking the tentacles will cause the core to bleed out will drastically change the encounter. The less tentacles it has, the less attacks it can make, and the tentacles are significantly more vulnerable than the core itself.Ok, but remember, players hopefully don't know the creature stats, so they won't know the trade-offs that intimately. I do think to lower the cost to 5 hit points. Basically it takes 3 turns to make it worthwhile. Not something the embryo would benefit from if the players know to go after the tentacles, but if they don't, and it regens a tentacle, they might just think that there is no purpose to keep going after the tentacles.
I like the uncertainty it provides. It puts some of the wonder back into the game
"While being grappled by a tentacle, a creature suffers 2 necrotic damage at the start of the dagonspawn's turn. The dawgonspawn regains hit points equal to, and increases it's maximum hit point total by, the amount of necrotic damage dealt this way."
It's a bit of a hack job, but it's worded similarly to how vampires work.
Not going to lie, I didn't see the blindsight.
Bump that up to 90' like the egg and it will be good enough.Fair enough, though a new power with a recharge of 6 or something would have worked just as well for this.
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