Out Of Combat Action Surge Uses

Sadras · Jan 18, 2019

The example with another try - attempt to reverse a losing skill check/challenge/contest (arm-wrestling...etc) is very appealing. It is fairly easy to associate AS with a physical activity outside of combat.

Perhaps even using AS to gain expertise for said action or spending it to lower the difficulty of the DC.
I can see the argument for that too.

Sacrosanct · Jan 18, 2019

Yeah, the idea that time tracking stops out of combat, or you can't have "turns" out of combat, is a flawed one. Time tracking happens all of the time, especially if there is a sense of urgency. The ticking down clock prop device is an extremely popular one. Dealing with traps is another. The idea that you have to have combat in order to handle "you've only got moments to open the door, take the item, figure out the puzzle, the walls are closing in, etc" is just plain wrong. Even though it's not literally a "turn", that's how we still handle and resolve out of combat actions from players. You kinda have to when dealing with multiple players and PCs. AS basically gives the PC another action, even when outside of combat.

Dausuul · Jan 18, 2019

I concur, Action Surge can be used outside of combat.

That said, the ability is fairly meaningless unless you are in an "initiative order" situation where rounds matter. I would expect such a situation to be resolved under the combat rules even if there were no actual enemies involved.

5ekyu · Jan 18, 2019

Sadras said:
The example with another try - attempt to reverse a losing skill check/challenge/contest (arm-wrestling...etc) is very appealing. It is fairly easy to associate AS with a physical activity outside of combat.

Perhaps even using AS to gain expertise for said action or spending it to lower the difficulty of the DC.
I can see the argument for that too.

I think this can be made more clear narratively.

Describe the fall and failed save as "grabbed a ledge or branch that held for just a second but then it begins to crumble or pull loose."

That gives you the easier visualization of how action surge looks being exceptional - others would have just fallen but a second roll can be "used that second (or second effort) to swing to..."

Dausuul · Jan 18, 2019

MaximusArael020 said:
One example I was thinking of is if a Fighter failed a Dex save while climbing or crossing a dangerous rock-bridge, etc, and started falling. They could use their Action Surge to try to grab onto the ledge again (basically re-roll the Save).

Er... what? I wouldn't allow that in combat; I see no reason why I would allow that out of combat, either. Action Surge lets you take a second action, it doesn't let you re-roll a saving throw.

I do typically give a reaction Dex save to save yourself if you're about to fall, but everybody gets that, and Action Surge doesn't let you do it twice.

Sadras · Jan 18, 2019

5ekyu said:
I think this can be made more clear narratively.

We pretty much use narration for everything so this is hardly a special case issue.

EDIT: I agree with [MENTION=58197]Dausuul[/MENTION]'s post above, your example refers to a failed save which is not something I'd allow with AS and I did not reflect on failed saves in my post.

5ekyu · Jan 18, 2019

Sadras said:
We pretty much use narration for everything so this is hardly a special case issue.

EDIT: I agree with [MENTION=58197]Dausuul[/MENTION]'s post above, your example refers to a failed save which is not something I'd allow with AS and I did not reflect on failed saves in my post.

Yes and i usually reflect attempts to grab ledges with athletics checks so... Yay.

MaximusArael020 · Jan 18, 2019

Dausuul said:
Er... what? I wouldn't allow that in combat; I see no reason why I would allow that out of combat, either. Action Surge lets you take a second action, it doesn't let you re-roll a saving throw.

I do typically give a reaction Dex save to save yourself if you're about to fall, but everybody gets that, and Action Surge doesn't let you do it twice.

Well, your table, your rules! At my table it would make sense if a Fighter could "push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment" to get a second grab at a ledge, etc. It's only once per day (until level 17). But if you don't think that makes sense, then don't use it!

Dausuul · Jan 18, 2019

MaximusArael020 said:
Well, your table, your rules! At my table it would make sense if a Fighter could "push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment" to get a second grab at a ledge, etc. It's only once per day (until level 17). But if you don't think that makes sense, then don't use it!

It's once per short rest, not once per day.

In any case, I generally prefer to play the rules as written, unless I have a specific reason to alter them. I've had too many cases of ill-considered house rules coming back to bite me or leading to balance problems; and it's a pain in the neck to keep track of them. Action Surge is powerful enough as is, it doesn't need to also be convertible to extra uses of Indomitable.

Sacrosanct · Jan 18, 2019

While I agree there are plenty of uses for AS out of combat, I tend to agree with Dausuul on this one. Why? Because saving throws typically don't happen on your turn, which AS requires. Skill checks? Sure, use AS to get a reroll. ST? Nope. You can't use AS to get a reroll in combat for a failed save, so why would you out of combat?

Of course, there is no judgement there about those who do want it that way.

Out Of Combat Action Surge Uses

Sadras

Legend

Sacrosanct

Legend

Dausuul

Legend

5ekyu

Hero

Dausuul

Legend

Sadras

Legend

5ekyu

Hero

MaximusArael020

Explorer

Dausuul

Legend

Sacrosanct

Legend

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