D&D 5E An adventure start for new PCs isn't railroading...

Dausuul · Sep 5, 2015

Remathilis said:
I wager GR and WotC are smart enough to make sure that PCs can get the needed items (spellbooks, focuses, and tools) as well as some decent armor and weapons, but the trope has a lot of "bad" experiences because a lot of DMs think its a better "challenge" or "more realistic" to not be able to cast spells, use skills, or have an AC higher than 13 and do more than 1d6 damage per hit.

Spellbooks are not easily replaced. A greatsword fighter can just buy another greatsword the first time the party reaches a town. The wizard can buy a blank spellbook, but what good is that? You've still lost all your non-prepared spells. Even if you capture another wizard's spellbook, it won't have the same spells in it; wizards pick the contents of their spellbooks carefully.

I'm not saying it's impossible to do a "start in prison" scenario well, but I don't think I've ever actually seen it done well.

Staffan · Sep 5, 2015

Remathilis said:
I wager GR and WotC are smart enough to make sure that PCs can get the needed items (spellbooks, focuses, and tools) as well as some decent armor and weapons, but the trope has a lot of "bad" experiences because a lot of DMs think its a better "challenge" or "more realistic" to not be able to cast spells, use skills, or have an AC higher than 13 and do more than 1d6 damage per hit.

In the right hands, it can be an interesting change of pace. In the wrong hands, its sadomasochism. I've seen far more the latter in my years than the former...

Were I to create such a scenario, I would allow the PCs access to basic gear pretty darn quick (clubs and other simple weapons, leather/hide/ring armor, and such), and over the course of a session or two bring them up to regular gear levels.

The main hurdle would be the wizard's spellbook, as that's the only class that has a piece of equipment as an actual class feature. I can't really decide if I would put that in at the earliest opportunity, or use it as the final reward before escaping.

Cristian Andreu · Sep 6, 2015

"You are all sitting on a railroad..."

I completely agree. In fact, that sort of start is my favourite way to begin a campaign. I see it more as an in media res resource than any kind of railroading.

Celtavian · Sep 6, 2015

If this is the case, I'm going to run them getting captured. I think it will be interesting to run a drow raiding party capturing slaves and sacrifices.

Hussar · Sep 6, 2015

Dausuul said:
Spellbooks are not easily replaced. A greatsword fighter can just buy another greatsword the first time the party reaches a town. The wizard can buy a blank spellbook, but what good is that? You've still lost all your non-prepared spells. Even if you capture another wizard's spellbook, it won't have the same spells in it; wizards pick the contents of their spellbooks carefully.

I'm not saying it's impossible to do a "start in prison" scenario well, but I don't think I've ever actually seen it done well.

But, we are talking about 1st level characters here. It's not too hard, usually, to guess what's in a 1st level wizard's spell book, and, considering they're in a Drow city, what are the chances they are only going to find one spell book? There's some pretty good chances that not only will the wizard replace everything he lost, but, he'll come out considerably ahead.

When did we get so worried about losing gear? As DM's, when did taking away the player's toys get taken off the table?

Agamon · Sep 6, 2015

Celtavian said:
If this is the case, I'm going to run them getting captured. I think it will be interesting to run a drow raiding party capturing slaves and sacrifices.

Personally, I'd only do this if the party winning the fight was a possibility to start the campaign. Otherwise, what's the point? A fight the party can't win or escape from is an actual railroad, unlike letting the players know they will begin the game captured.

Celtavian · Sep 6, 2015

Remathilis said:
I wager GR and WotC are smart enough to make sure that PCs can get the needed items (spellbooks, focuses, and tools) as well as some decent armor and weapons, but the trope has a lot of "bad" experiences because a lot of DMs think its a better "challenge" or "more realistic" to not be able to cast spells, use skills, or have an AC higher than 13 and do more than 1d6 damage per hit.

In the right hands, it can be an interesting change of pace. In the wrong hands, its sadomasochism. I've seen far more the latter in my years than the former...

I'm going to have my PCs figure this out. That should be some fun role-playing.

MerricB · Sep 6, 2015

Agamon said:
Personally, I'd only do this if the party winning the fight was a possibility to start the campaign. Otherwise, what's the point? A fight the party can't win or escape from is an actual railroad, unlike letting the players know they will begin the game captured.

Yep. Probably the most problematic encounter in all gaming: "The monsters try to capture the PCs". Especially if preceded by the ultimatum of "surrender or die!"

Cheers!

Celtavian · Sep 6, 2015

Agamon said:
Personally, I'd only do this if the party winning the fight was a possibility to start the campaign. Otherwise, what's the point? A fight the party can't win or escape from is an actual railroad, unlike letting the players know they will begin the game captured.

I don't care. Sometimes you have to learn to lose and live. PCs ambush weaker stuff all the time. Sometimes it goes the other way. It will give me a chance to role-play the enemy. This is a role-playing game with combat, not a combat game with role-playing. PCs should be able to role-playing surviving in a situation they can't win. This always starting off in a situation the PCs can win or they get to do what they want all the time is boring. I like the idea of playing out a drow ambush. I can focus less on the combat and more on the NPC personalities.

Celtavian · Sep 6, 2015

MerricB said:
Yep. Probably the most problematic encounter in all gaming: "The monsters try to capture the PCs". Especially if preceded by the ultimatum of "surrender or die!"

Cheers!

Why would drow even ask? Why would they try? They use sleep poison, magic, and are ruthless. Should be fairly fast and painless. They usually have clerics as part of the raiding party to ensure captives don't die. And it will allow me to set things up as a red herring.

I'm thinking a surface dweller is working for the drow. He sends hapless adventurers on quests where the drow are waiting to ambush them. Yes. I have an interesting hook for this now.

I plan to extend the module to level 20+ as well. Should be easy with demons.

D&D 5E An adventure start for new PCs isn't railroading...

Dausuul

Legend

Staffan

Legend

Cristian Andreu

Explorer

Celtavian

Dragon Lord

Hussar

Legend

Agamon

Adventurer

Celtavian

Dragon Lord

MerricB

Eternal Optimist

Celtavian

Dragon Lord

Celtavian

Dragon Lord

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