D&D 5E 5e - Just Missing the Mark


log in or register to remove this ad

5ekyu

Hero
The problem is that there are no guidelines on how to do this. The rules assume you do nothing of the sort. (If so, there would be examples already in official published adventures.) You're using the skills you developed in more robust editions to breathe life into what's in effect a shallow version of the game.

Even the rules for skills leave much to be desired. There are no rules for checks to swim, jump, climb, etc. It's just an automatic "your character can do this." By the rules, being in bulky, heavy armor doesn't cause any undue hardship when your fighter tumbles from a crumbling ancient causeway. All we get is how many HOURS he can swim before being exhausted and how many MINUTES he can hold his breath (likely 16+ minutes) before he starts to drown. Traversing a burning building? Well there are no rules about smoke inhalation, obscuring vision, slower movement while blinded, etc.

So how is a DM supposed to extrapolate an exciting, dynamic battlefield when the rules give no guidance? You might as well just make up your own system.

And if you're talking about boring, 30 ft square rooms with bags of hit points walking around, look at the official D&D campaign adventures.
If I recall, one of the first starters had a gang of bad guys watching from a lookout, able to release a wall of water that would force checks orvglush some down to lower rooms with other guys party split, foes teo plsces, maybe more.


There are guidrlines... plenty of them.

Skills DCs are given by broad DC categories the GM assigns with advice in the DMG.

I think you mistake or conflate *has general guidelines not have set rules* for "assume you fo nothing of the sort."

Swimming, climbing, jumping have no check required by default, but they have possibilities for circumstances to require them- when the GM sets that scene that way.

I mean, look, what if they listed specific hard and fast DCs for swimming in quick flowing water (DC 15) and Rapids (DC 20). Would that be **any** different than saying the GM can call for checks in difficult swims and having moderate DC be 15 and Hard 20?

Nope. Not one single bit.

Cuz you still have the GM choosing for a scene "is it rapid or fast flowing?"

Obscuring vision by smoke- seems clear - pun intended - the GM decides if its lightly obscured or heavy. Slower cro@ding? GM decides is it difficulty or not **or** if its unstable enough to de facto count as trap with perception to spot the hazard - as shown in some of their APs for like loose stone or crumbling floors.

Again, what chart eould fo this **for** the GM? Unless every burning house had the same rules, it still comes down to the GM deciding how bad it is and getting a DC.

Sorry but the repeated referral to no guidance seems like either intentional overstatement or just not having read the books.
 

5ekyu

Hero
I get that you can't provide enough details for every situation, but how about providing DCs for these basic checks?

Climbing a cavern wall?
Climbing a rope?
Swimming calm water?
Swimming rough water?
Balancing on a narrow ledge?
Picking an average lock?
Breaking down a wooden door?

Should we just assume a DC 10? Should we assume you don't have to make a roll? What would balancing on a narrow ledge covered in ice be (would it be a DC 15 or a DC 10 made with disadvantage)?
Cavern wall? What kind? Slick with mold and damp? Crumbling? Granite or limestone? Worn smooth or rough after a quake? Who makes those decisions- the GM.

Calm, rough, rapid? Who chooses which there are there and who chooses where the breakpoints are? What if instead of say calm, disturbed, tough and rapid we label them very easy, easy, medium and hard and let the GM pick ?

Narrow ledge? Are all narrow ledges the same or should the gm pick between not real wide, slender, narrow and rope-thin (hey four types, wish there were some categories of difficulty to... oh yeah)

Is it like the wooden door yo my closet or the wooden door to a barn to keep horses in? Big difference. Who is it who can know which is in that scene?

If a GM csnnot decide does between easy, medium and hard, to force a door he put in his scene, more rules wont help.
 



Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
I get that you can't provide enough details for every situation, but how about providing DCs for these basic checks?

Climbing a cavern wall?
Climbing a rope?
Swimming calm water?
Swimming rough water?
Balancing on a narrow ledge?
Picking an average lock?
Breaking down a wooden door?

Should we just assume a DC 10? Should we assume you don't have to make a roll? What would balancing on a narrow ledge covered in ice be (would it be a DC 15 or a DC 10 made with disadvantage)?

No offense, but this reads like someone looking for 3.x or Pathfinder 1, where most everything is already codified in the ruleset. 5e doesn't play like that. Go back to the very beginning of the PHB and read the play procedure outlined there: the DM describes the scene, the players declare actions, and the DM determines if those actions automatically succeed, automatically fail, or are uncertain. If uncertain, an ability check is called for and the DM assigns a DC based on the scene as described and the action as described. If the task is easy, DC 10, medium DC 15, hard DC 20, very hard DC 25, nearly impossible DC 30. There's no need for your list of DCs because it's already right there: you described the wall, and the player's declaration to climb it seems uncertain to you, so, based on your description and the declared action (are they trying to scramble up the wall or are they being careful and using tools?) decide how hard it would be and, bam, your DC is set.

This doesn't appeal to everyone, and that's fine -- as you've noted there are many other games out there that will provide you much more codified rules. Find one and enjoy gaming!
 

S'mon

Legend
There's no need for your list of DCs because it's already right there: you described the wall, and the player's declaration to climb it seems uncertain to you, so, based on your description and the declared action (are they trying to scramble up the wall or are they being careful and using tools?) decide how hard it would be and, bam, your DC is set.

This is also how I ran 4e, though with 4e the numbers went 10-40 (+/- 2) rather than 5-30 (Very Easy to Nearly Impossible).

If you're not sure of the DC, by default it's moderate - DC 15.
 

WaterRabbit

Explorer
The issue isn't so much the rules as the presentation of the rules.

I'm glad 5E looked back to pre-4E editions for most of its inspirations and approaches to play. What I'm not so glad about is WotC also took a few steps back in terms of presentation, burying its rules content in walls of descriptive text. In terms of instructional design, D&D 5E is about 20 years behind the times. Where are the numbered steps, bulletted lists, and compact summaries of rules mechanics?

I've been playing 5E since the Next playtests, and I still have to parse paragraphs of text to learn how a Wizard gets new spells and how many they learn at each level.

With effective information design techniques, WotC could summarize the core non-class-specific rules of D&D on two 2-sided sheets of standard letter-sized paper. But they seem to believe people want to read their rules content buried in walls of descriptive text. And maybe some readers do - the ones who buy RPG books for reading material and not as resources to be used at the table.

Maybe WotC will eventually overcome its aversion/embarrassment to all things 4E and take a page out of D&D Essentials by publishing a digest-sized softcover Rules Compendium. One can hope.

And yes, DM screens are awful. They're so consistently and universally awful that it can't be explained by simple incompetence. My sense is most RPG publishers have a deep-rooted opposition to their rules being made available in compact formats, presumably out of fear that it will cut down on the need for PHBs and DMGs.

This sounds like a good supplement you could create for the community.
 


Remove ads

AD6_gamerati_skyscraper

Remove ads

Upcoming Releases

Top