How to keep women in the game?

PMárk

Explorer
Frankly, listen to what they like. It's not very PC but an average woman likes more roleplaying, intrigue, romance, and less combat. Thing is, an awful lot of men do as well, so maybe just crank that right up. But, asking is best, some women I have played with loved being buffee up battlefield tanks or deathly assassins just much.
Plus, do a check on just how 'laddish' or locker room your group's language and topics are...

Oh, and shower, change clothes and open a window...

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Honestly, I think that's the best advice. Obvious things aside (like not being a total filthy nerd stereotype and treating women as equals, etc.), when speaking abut just the kind of games, the above is generally true. It's not a surprise that Vampire the Masquerade brought in a lot of new women players back in the day and that even nowadays there's much more women around the narrative-focused games than D&D-like ones. It also isn't a surprise that D&D 5e is probably the most-played D&D version among women.

Of course, those things are not always true, so if everything else is okay in the group, tray to find a woman, who is interested in combat-heavy games, or just change the pace of the game to get everyone more interested.
 

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Lylandra

Adventurer
"Quasi-realistic" is another way of saying "not realistic".

And it's not about whether a particular setting is or isn't 'okay'. If everyone in the group is happy with things, then by all means, set your game in Aggressively Unrealistic Medieval England and deviate from real history all you like. Port over a thinly-disguised version of GoT. Heck, run a strictly traditionalist game of Murder-Hobo Lords of Gor if that's what the GM and players clamor for.

But it's disingenuous to take a vastly unrealistic setting - cherry-picking bits here and there of "medieval Europe", slapping in new ones that never existed, and excising realistic elements that are boring or distasteful - and then insisting that elements A and B are there because realism demands it. As you note, it's a fantasy setting. So when a GM is happy to have wizards throwing fireballs, open borders, and a distinct lack of enforced monotheism, but insists that women can't be fighters or a lifted skirt clouds men's minds without fail or consequence, well. That's not actually a game with a historically-accurate setting. That's a game where the GM wants particular gender roles, but won't cop to it, instead letting History take the rap. (Poor History!)

Turning back to the actual subject of the discussion: it's a little difficult to get players to stick around for a game when the game itself, or its setting, takes away from their fun. And for rather a lot of people, "your PC is going to have to put up with the same crap as you do in real life! because realism!" is not something that makes a game sound like a fabulous way to spend a weekend.

That's why I said quasi-realistic :)
I don't think that anyone who is not a student of medieval history would be able to correctly portray a strictly historical setting. I once read some articles in a history of women class where guys would disguise as women during some feudal upheaval because women wouldn't be bothered protesting as "it was in their nature" to be rebellious, chaotic and untameable. There also was the case of a spanish (and also a ... native canadian?) region which had been utterly matrilineal for ages until some officials came to them and wanted their husband's approval for everything.

Let's just say that a GoT style setting (which I guess seems fascinating for a lot of players and has to be used as my model here) isn't really strictly historically accurate because there were a LOT more nuances in a LOT more regions than what we see in literature or TV. Also I'd really differentiate between high magic and low magic settings here, for as you said, one does not really have the time to discriminate when he's running away from a fireball. Or meteor swarm. Or a dragon.
 


machineelf

Explorer
I dunno. I got my wife into the game (she's 28) and our group consists of two guys and three women. I've DM'd games with four female players and me as the only guy. I haven't found any problem getting women into the game.

Find the right cool women, I guess. With a mixed group you can play some strip D&D, so that's cool. ;)

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But it's disingenuous to take a vastly unrealistic setting - cherry-picking bits here and there of "medieval Europe", slapping in new ones that never existed, and excising realistic elements that are boring or distasteful - and then insisting that elements A and B are there because realism demands it. As you note, it's a fantasy setting. So when a GM is happy to have wizards throwing fireballs, open borders, and a distinct lack of enforced monotheism, but insists that women can't be fighters or a lifted skirt clouds men's minds without fail or consequence, well. That's not actually a game with a historically-accurate setting. That's a game where the GM wants particular gender roles, but won't cop to it, instead letting History take the rap. (Poor History!)
Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous to insist that historical realism demands anything in this crazy game. There is another sort of "realism" that is worth consideration, though: literary verisimilitude. Simply put, fictional cultures ought to have flaws for the same reasons fictional characters ought to have flaws, because perfection is unrelatable and imperfection generates drama. And sexism and other forms of bigotry are certainly near the top of the list of common cultural flaws. That said, literary verisimilitude doesn't demand that a culture has any one particular flaw any more than it demands a character does. If your character is, say, a psychopath, and your audience dislikes that, you can't say, "But my character has to be a psychopath, because he has to have a flaw!" You can always just pick a different flaw. Same goes for culture. Sexism is one way to give a culture that rough texture of imperfection, but there are other ways, and you should pick the way that isn't going to anger, annoy, or hurt your audience.

Turning back to the actual subject of the discussion: it's a little difficult to get players to stick around for a game when the game itself, or its setting, takes away from their fun. And for rather a lot of people, "your PC is going to have to put up with the same crap as you do in real life! because realism!" is not something that makes a game sound like a fabulous way to spend a weekend.
Yeah, a good rule of thumb is that, regardless of the flaws and prejudices in your setting's culture, the PCs should generally be exempt from it unless the player actively signals that they want it to be a part of their character's conflict. This goes for gender, race, orientation, and everything else. And it's not just ducking the issue to avoid hurt feelings (although to be clear: that is the most important reason for doing it, since this is supposed to be a fun recreational activity for everyone). There is some in-universe logic to a sexist lord not being quite as swinish towards a heavily-armed Amazon as he is towards commoner women, or a half-orc who slew a rampaging dragon earning a respect not afforded to his kin.
 

Igwilly

First Post
Find the right cool women, I guess. With a mixed group you can play some strip D&D, so that's cool. ;)

What? Hahahaha.

I think this would require an insane amount of house-rules just so it can make sense. In addition, this would take the table’s focus away from the real problem here: how to save this imaginary universe from being destroyed by Omega Weapon.
 

Caliban

Rules Monkey
What? Hahahaha.

I think this would require an insane amount of house-rules just so it can make sense. In addition, this would take the table’s focus away from the real problem here: how to save this imaginary universe from being destroyed by Omega Weapon.

If you have arrived at "strip D&D" then the in-game goals are very much secondary to the real-world goals.
 

was

Adventurer
..Not to over-generalize, but IME, female gamers tend to stick around longer when there are more than one in the group.
 

machineelf

Explorer
..Not to over-generalize, but IME, female gamers tend to stick around longer when there are more than one in the group.

There is probably some truth to that. And if the whole group gels and everyone is on the same level in terms of social interaction.
 

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