iserith
Magic Wordsmith
That seems like a better choice in my view.
If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
That seems like a better choice in my view.
I personally didn't like the books so live-action show about them doesn't hold any interest.
L
lowkey13
Guest
*Deleted by user*
Swarmkeeper
Hero
Oofta
Legend
Game of Thrones? Everyone you care about dies. If they haven't died yet, they're about to die.
Or did you mean the never-ending thread? You have two basic camps.
One takes what I consider a very hard-core approach that a PC cannot ask to do a skill check (i.e. "I make an insight check to see if they're lying") and instead have to state goal and method. Depending on who you ask there also has to be a requirement for a significant cost of failure. Oh, and in the case of the OP the player could not ask for a skill check because players can't ask for skill checks. Only the DM can call for a skill check and they won't because there's no chance of failure.
In addition, players should avoid skill checks at all costs and instead describe how they're accomplishing the goal in such a way that it's guaranteed to succeed.
The other (that I support) doesn't really care how people say what they're doing or how as long as it's clear. If it's not clear, I just ask for clarification. As far as the the OP I'd ask for (or allow) an insight check because people meta-game even if they don't realize it and if I don't ask (or allow) for one there was no attempt at deception.
Now I'll probably be accused of completely misrepresenting the former opinion and not being sincere. That and I run boring games where all people do is sit around grunting at each other and rolling dice because I don't let people bypass the skill check entirely by describing how they disable a trap.
They would have to be Dark Crystal style muppets, then maybe.
Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I got pretty disillusioned with that show after the billionth time they turned a sex scene that was consensual in the books into another rape scene.
Oofta
Legend
Or just for [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION], muppet paladin gnomes. So cute! So fuzzy! So holier-than-thou!
Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
The thing is, our camp doesn’t care how people say what they’re doing either. It’s just that we don’t find “I use [skill] to [do the thing]” clear. So, we ask for clarification - “Ok, so you want to [do the thing], but I’m unclear what your character is actually doing to pull that off. Could you please elaborate?”
So, this is a key point of contention. To those of us who perfer a goal and an approach, skill checks are not things that exist independently, to be overcome with a high enough roll or bypassed with a creative approach. A locked door is not a skill check waiting to happen, it’s just a locked door, which can be unlocked through various methods the characters might employ, such as using the key, or casting knock, or picking the lock with thieves’ tools. If the outcome of the attempt to open the lock is in question, then a check is the means of answering that question. That’s why you keep being accused of misrepresenting this style of task resolution. You keep framing it in the terms of your preferred style, which leads to incongruities with the way you are presenting the style and the way it actually looks in play. “Bypass the skill check” is kind of a nonsense phrase in a goal-and-approach framework. I guess maybe you could argue that abilities like Reliable Talent kind of allow you to bypass skill checks, because they modify the set of possible results on a check being made. But a character disarming a trap without making a check is not “bypassing a check” under goal-and-approach, any more than a character tying their shoes without a check is.
Oofta
Legend
[MENTION=6779196]Charlaquin[/MENTION], I don't want to waste time on this any more. Obviously if someone has a key to a door they don't need to use lockpicks. If they can bypass a trap by taking another route, they take the other route.
On the other hand if they have to disable a simple trap (complex traps are a different beast) or unlock a door with lockpicks, I will ask for a check no matter how they describe it.
That's just not how I run it. Run it differently at your table? As long as people are having fun you're doing it right.
On the other hand if they have to disable a simple trap (complex traps are a different beast) or unlock a door with lockpicks, I will ask for a check no matter how they describe it.
That's just not how I run it. Run it differently at your table? As long as people are having fun you're doing it right.
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