D&D 5E A Bit More on Subclasses from the Escapist

A level 10 Eldrich Knight Fighter/10 Abjure Wizard gets up to seventh level spells, Second Wind, Action Surge, Fighting Style, indominable, bonded Weapon, War Magic, Eldrich Strike, Extra Attack, Arcane Recovery, Abjuration Savant, Arcane Ward, Protective Ward, Improved Abjuration. Your want high stats in strength or Dex and Intelligence.

Also remember that your attacks are based on wheather or not you profient + your attack stat. So you have as much chance to hit as a full level fighter with your attacks, and your spells are just as likely to hit as a full wizard, plus you have a ton of features. Prof is based on character level not class level. Also keep in mind that while your Eldrich Knight spells are limited to Abjuration and Evocation plus a couple of other spells, but the spells you gain as a wizard has no restriction and you use either set of spells in your spell slots. Oh and you get like 8 cantrips and Ritual Casting.


This build gets more spells then a 20th level Paladin, as many attacks as a Paladin.

So yeah you can have a very powerful multiclass Eldrich Knight/Abjure. And while Abjure dovetails thematically with Eldrich Knight, you can mix it with any type of wizard subclass. Want a more Death Knight feel, multiclass Necromancer (actually Eldrich Knight/Necromancer is a cool combo).

Or Even with other classes. A level 10 Eldrich Knight/ level 10 Tempest Cleric could be really cool, especially if you focus on lightening based spells and shocking grasp Cantrip.

Paraxis said:

Yes you can cast mage armor but then you are down a spell slot or two a day.

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Then don't cast mage armor, just put on some studded leather, which coupled with Dex 17 gives you a starting AC 15 (up to 17 with Dex 20). As a Fighter, you can pick up the Defense fighting style for +1 AC, so you'll top out at AC 18 (same as chainmail + shield). Or, you can pick up a shield and go AC 19 (same as splint + shield).

Attack bonus is the same so no comparison.

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It is totally a comparison, because going finesse you keep your defense and attack in the same stat, meaning you can choose not to pump Str and instead focus on Con (for the hp), Int (for the spells) or Wis (for better saves).

Damage, so far from what we have seen the two-handed strength based fighter types win out in DPR hands down.

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If you don't go Defense (above), take Dueling for +2 to damage (bladesingers traditionally have a free hand). Such a Fighter with Dex 20 would do 1d8+7 with a rapier (10.5 avg), while a greataxe wielder with Str 20 will deal 1d12+5 (11.5 avg).

Initiative, only matters round 1 since it is a loop, if initiative is rolled every round it might matter more but it is not.

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Initiative is king. Most combats last 3-5 rounds, and who goes first in the first round has a distinct advantage. Specially since, as you're wearing light armor, you'll be able to strike from hiding and be very mobile (no reduced speed).

Ranged attacks, that is what your spells are for.

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As a Fighter, you'll be able to use a longbow for 1d8+5 (Dex 20) damage, and get multiple attacks. A fighter/mage (specially a bladesinger) uses magic to enhance his weapon attacks, for protection (Shield, for instance) and for the occasional area attack to clear out minions. If you want to rely solely on spells, just make an elf wizard and use a short sword (the proficiency bonus is the same, so the wizard can hit well enough).

Stealth and other rogue skills are nice but you are not the skill monkey you are the fighter/mage guy.

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Anyone can be the "skill monkey", with the correct background. Elves are known for guerrila tactics, so proficiency in Stealth is appropriate, and you'll be as good as a rogue.

The best reason given so far to me is Dexterity is one of the best saves in the game.

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Yep. Dex, Con and Wis are the most common saves.

But in a white room if the DPR of a two-handed strength based EK is better than a finesse rapier using EK, I will pick the strength based one every time. All I am asking is for the game to give me a numbers reason to play the character I want to play which is a studded leather/chain shirt wearing rapier using guy who can cast a spell and swing a sword in the same round.

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And there is the crux of the problem: you want to play a type of character, but it's not enough for it to be a decent build, it has to be the king of DPR. A fighter/mage has never been a role specialist. Traditionally, dabbling in two fields like this makes your character more versatile, at the expense of some of your focus. You'll be able to swing a sword and take hits better than a wizard, and you'll be able to throw burning hands around better than a fighter.

I'm now both happy and sad.

One of my favorite things in an edition is character building. And [MENTION=607]Klaus[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6670153]gyor[/MENTION] (with help from [MENTION=1288]Mouseferatu[/MENTION]) have made my first character for me.

Thanks guys.

Thaumaturge.

Klaus said:

You don't need encouragement to play a finesse-based character. the trade-off youll be getting for not putting on heavy armor is that you won't have to focus on Strength, instead boosting your Dex, which will govern your melee and ranged attacks, damage, initiative, stealth and a very common saving throw.

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Glad that works for you and some people. For others like myself, it is a piss poor method of handling it. As a DM, if the character is not supposed to be trained in medium and heavy armor, the character should lose medium and heavy armor and get something else in return rather than just ignoring class features. Then, if they want to pick it up training in those armors later, they should have to expend some resource later to gain it.

Thaumaturge said:

I'm now both happy and sad.

One of my favorite things in an edition is character building. And [MENTION=607]Klaus[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6670153]gyor[/MENTION] (with help from [MENTION=1288]Mouseferatu[/MENTION]) have made my first character for me.

Thanks guys.

Thaumaturge.

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You're... er... welcome?

Greg K said:

Glad that works for you and some people. For others like myself, it is a piss poor method of handling it. As a DM, if the character is not supposed to be trained in medium and heavy armor, the character should lose medium and heavy armor and get something else in return rather than just ignoring class features. Then, if they want to pick it up training in those armors later, they should have to expend some resource later to gain it.

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It's not "is not supposed to", it's "chooses not to". The trade-off you make is focusing on Dex instead of Str. The mechanical advantage is superior mobility and stealth, instead of 1 point of average DPR and better grappling.

I wonder if a Fighter (eldrithc knight)/ Rogue (arcane trickster) would play more like what you want... the sneak attack more then makes up the dpr even if you only split it with fkghter build.


I know want to run an elf Fighter 5/ Rogue 5/ Wizard 10

The Ronger has 2 5th level slots and 2 4th level slots more then the Eldrich Knight.

But Eldrich Knight has more cantrips and if you multiclass wizard, you can end up with more spell slots then a ranger.

Greg K said:

Glad that works for you and some people. For others like myself, it is a piss poor method of handling it. As a DM, if the character is not supposed to be trained in medium and heavy armor, the character should lose medium and heavy armor and get something else in return rather than just ignoring class features. Then, if they want to pick it up training in those armors later, they should have to expend some resource later to gain it.

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That's like saying: "I know I'm proficient in all simple and marital weapons, but since I never plan on using anything but a warhammer, I should get a different bonus instead of all those weapons I could use but aren't."

Snapdragyn said:

I hope you're right about that, but I've only given this thread a brief glans.

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And hopefully things won't get heated, we don't want anyone getting teste.