D&D 5E A Bit More on Subclasses from the Escapist

[Ichneumon]

And hopefully things won't get heated, we don't want anyone getting teste.

If they do, the mods will ensure they pay deferens.

 

[jadrax]

That's like saying: "I know I'm proficient in all simple and marital weapons, but since I never plan on using anything but a warhammer, I should get a different bonus instead of all those weapons I could use but aren't."

Indeed.

 

[GSHamster]

Glad that works for you and some people. For others like myself, it is a piss poor method of handling it. As a DM, if the character is not supposed to be trained in medium and heavy armor, the character should lose medium and heavy armor and get something else in return rather than just ignoring class features. Then, if they want to pick it up training in those armors later, they should have to expend some resource later to gain it.

I don't understand. You want to play a DEX-based fighter, but you want to wear medium/heavy armor? Why not just play a STR-based fighter instead?

The DEX-based Fighter archetype is nimble and lightly armored.

Also, I don't see the point of DEX-Fighter/Mage. Why not just go with Rogue/Mage instead?

 

[Greg K]

That's like saying: "I know I'm proficient in all simple and marital weapons, but since I never plan on using anything but a warhammer, I should get a different bonus instead of all those weapons I could use but aren't."

Personally, not a fan of proficient in all simple and martial weapons (which is why I do not use it in 3e). However, if a player wanted to be proficient in only warhammer, I would like to them to have the option (or at least a 2e or UA weapon group that included warhammers) and receive something in exchange. They just should not complain if they are in situations where the warhammer is not as effective as another weapon or if magical warhammers are not easily found

 

[Greg K]

I don't understand. You want to play a DEX-based fighter, but you want to wear medium/heavy armor?

I don't want to play anything. I tend to DM.

Why not just play a STR-based fighter instead?

The DEX-based Fighter archetype is nimble and lightly armored.

And, in many instances, the dex-based fighter archetype has no proficiency in medium or heavy armor. I want a subclass that reflects this and gives my players something in exchange rather than granting them features they must ignore to play the archetype. At least, 3e gave an example of a variant that received something in exchange for giving up proficiency in heavy armor and could serve as an example for modifying the class.

Also, I don't see the point of DEX-Fighter/Mage. Why not just go with Rogue/Mage instead?

The class features that match up with archetypes. Plus, if you are saying to multiclass, I find multi-classing hoop jumping for a player to meet certain common archetypes to be a crap way of doing things compared to a single class or subclass. This is why I sought out 3rd party classes and class variants in 3e.

 

[Erechel]

I feel like the Monk of Four Elements has a lot of potential, but in the core manual it sucks a bit. Maybe I'm too "Avatar" themed, but I feel like it's not a lot different from the Open Hand: stun punch, Perfect Self and such are great for a general class, but, if you are more interested in playing a badass/wise character like Airoh it's a bit limited. See, for example, the Fangs of the Fire Snake: it pretty much suck compared to a Cantrip like Fire Burst... and you have to pay precious ki for it. Yes, you could make a Flurry, but at 2 ki points; otherwise you can make two d4 "fire" attacks at 1 ki point, but still 10 feet range isn't a lot, and a good archer kills the monk from far away if has two attacks or enough firepower. I don't really like another "caster" in the group, and I pretty much liked more a "bender" type. How much cooler will be if a monk could re-route a fire ball (for example), use "earth bending" to change the battle scenario (maybe creating some cover), or use the swiftness of an Airbender to make great leaps, or something like that? Of course, this could be far too OP without proper balance, but the ki-spent will be more worthy. After all, a simple mage can cast a fireball that deals huge amounts of damage at level 5, and at level 1 can use infinite Fire Bursts.
I am playing as a DM, and two of my players chose to play w4 monks, but primarily by Avatar's love, not because of combat mechanics.
Also, I would like more non-combat abilities to the w4 monks: leaps, terrain control, climatic resistance, improved swiming and such. This powers could easily replace other general Monk powers, instead of costing Feats or something. Maybe they need something like a required power, or a Elemental primary discipline to make proper builds.
Sorry for my English, I'm from Argentina

 

[Piratecat]

Your English is great, no worries.

I think you could house rule the monk pretty easily if you did so carefully. I'd be cautious about something like "re-aim fireball," but substituting in the counterspell spell might work.

If you write this up, please post it. I'd like to see it.

 

[Klaus]

If you want a wiser, Airoh-style "bender", you could easily build one up as a multiclass Monk/Sorcerer (or Wizard). Benders in "Avatar" tend to focus much more on their elemental powers than the average Monk of the Four Elements.

Hmm... Now I'm thinking of a way to make ki and sorcery points add up...

 

[Erechel]

Yes, I know that it can be builded a sorceror-monk type, but he never be as great as a one-classed character, and the problem remains the same: he will be another caster, without many of the advantages of the classes, trapped in lower effective levels than his companions. Cast a spell is slow (even at-will powers -ahem, cantrips-), and it's not really the spirit of a monk: Why choose then elemental powers only, when you can have necromancy, illusion, abjuration, divination, etc, and you have no bonuses applied? Can you really divert a fireball to aid your group? I still feel that a w4 monk has a lot more potential. Of course, I think that I will house rule them, but I don't have the real experience with 5ed to do it yet. But, off course, I will be happy to share it to improve the bender

 

[Klaus]

Yes, I know that it can be builded a sorceror-monk type, but he never be as great as a one-classed character, and the problem remains the same: he will be another caster, without many of the advantages of the classes, trapped in lower effective levels than his companions.

That's not really the case in 5e, because Proficiency Bonus increases based on your total levels. Your unarmed strikes will be deal a bit less damage, but the attack bonus won't suffer for it. And a couple of levels of sorcerer will give you 3 cantrips (let's say blade ward, dancing lights, fire bolt and light for a fire-based character) and 3 known spells (burning hands, expeditious retreat and jump, for that extra wuxia-style flavor). If you house rule that ki points and sorcery points stack, you'd even be able to spend spell slots to replenish your ki.

And spellcasting isn't slow, it's usually an action, just like making a melee attack.