D&D 5E A Proper Ability Score Generation Preference Poll

Caliban · Nov 15, 2017

Wulffolk said:
What strikes me as odd, when it comes to using point-buy or an array, is that most people want their character to be "special" and yet seem to prefer the methods that guarantee that their character is in no way special at all. If everybody is the exact same then they are now normal, not special. I just don't understand that paradox, which is why I prefer rolling.

However, I completely understand the need for uniformity for things like AL.

For a lot of us, it is not your stats that make your character special. That's just the necessary framework that lets them operate in the game world.

What make them special is their personality, their approach to the game, and possibly a signature spell, feat, or class ability that they use more often or differently than most other characters of the same class.

If you don't make the effort, sure all your fighter, clerics, rogues, and wizards can end up being very similar. But rolling your stats or using point buy won't change that.

Ultimately it's up to the player to make their characters special, not the stat generation method.

Satyrn · Nov 15, 2017

[MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION], [MENTION=284]Caliban[/MENTION]

Ha ha! My response was seconds faster than yours

Oofta · Nov 15, 2017

Satyrn said:
[MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION], [MENTION=284]Caliban[/MENTION]

Ha ha! My response was seconds faster than yours

But yours didn't have the pithy Incredibles reference. Ha ha! Back at you.

Lanefan · Nov 15, 2017

JonnyP71 said:
That's one of the rules I use when I DM, and I make it clear during session 0.

Treasury division method is one area where I as DM leave it entirely up to the players/characters to determine how they want to do it, as it has nothing to do with me as DM (other than in-character input from party NPCs if there are any). If they want to divide it fairly, they can (and IME usually do). If they want to divide it unfairly, they can. If they want to steal from each other or from the dungeon, they can.

Once they've come up with a method I'll help with the grunt-work and math etc. if needed.

If a party thief wants to do some stealing for personal gain then they'll be doing it alone, and from townsfolk/NPCs.

Any loot found while adventuring as a group is automatically 'party treasure' to be shared out fairly. If the thief steals something in a dungeon then it will be stolen from the dungeon and put into 'party treasure'. If they steal from a fellow PC then they will be stealing from 'party treasure' and it will be added back into 'party treasure' - ie nothing will happen!

Some players pull a face, but overall it helps with party cohesion.

I'd be one such player, for a few reasons:

- even if I didn't myself want to steal anything I'd prefer the option still be there for others
- this seems a bit heavy-handed from the DM side in removing character agency and free will, and I'd wonder where else this would crop up.

Lanefan

Wulffolk · Nov 15, 2017

[MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION], [MENTION=284]Caliban[/MENTION], [MENTION=6801204]Satyrn[/MENTION]

I suppose I should have used the word unique instead of special, but I am sure that somebody would misconstrue that too. Of course it is the RP that makes a character special or unique. I can play a character with any set of stats and make it special or unique or fun. I don't need to have the best stats at the table, and have no problem playing a supporting role.

The point was that if everybody is the same then why bother. I did not claim that anybody was wrong, just that I do not understand the paradox of people choosing to be the same qhile wanting to be different. Of course, as evidenced by numerous threads, some with more than 200 pages, some people have entrenched positions and are resistant to differing views.

Caliban · Nov 15, 2017

Wulffolk said:
[MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION], [MENTION=284]Caliban[/MENTION], [MENTION=6801204]Satyrn[/MENTION]
The point was that if everybody is the same then why bother.

That's the part you don't seem to grasp. Your stats are only part of your character. Even with exactly the same stats, two fighters or two wizards can be completely different and contribute to the party in different ways.

I did not claim that anybody was wrong, just that I do not understand the paradox of people choosing to be the same while wanting to be different.

*shrug* Some people have trouble seeing beyond the stats to the actual character.

pemerton · Nov 15, 2017

Wulffolk said:
The point was that if everybody is the same then why bother.

Even if everyone's PC was mechanically the same, playing the game might still be fun.

But in any event it's simply not true that point-buy PC building leads to every PC being the same.

Wulffolk · Nov 15, 2017

Caliban said:
That's the part you don't seem to grasp. Your stats are only part of your character. Even with exactly the same stats, two fighters or two wizards can be completely different and contribute to the party in different ways.

*shrug* Some people have trouble seeing beyond the stats to the actual character.

Yup, you have me pegged. I see nothing beyond stats, despite the numerous posts I have made to the contrary. Thank you for enlightening me on breaking out of my mold.

I find it ironic that people that would not ever consider risking the need to play a sub-par character attempt to characterize those with a different view from their own as people obsessed with stats. My earlier post must have hit a nerve.

JonnyP71 · Nov 15, 2017

Lanefan said:
Treasury division method is one area where I as DM leave it entirely up to the players/characters to determine how they want to do it, as it has nothing to do with me as DM (other than in-character input from party NPCs if there are any). If they want to divide it fairly, they can (and IME usually do). If they want to divide it unfairly, they can. If they want to steal from each other or from the dungeon, they can.

Once they've come up with a method I'll help with the grunt-work and math etc. if needed.

I'd be one such player, for a few reasons:

- even if I didn't myself want to steal anything I'd prefer the option still be there for others
- this seems a bit heavy-handed from the DM side in removing character agency and free will, and I'd wonder where else this would crop up.

Lanefan

The main aim of it is to avoid the 'I grab it!', 'I saw it first' mentality. I'm not interesting in adjudicating who saw what loot first, and I don't want to DM a game in which the players spend any significant amount of time arguing, it breaks all concentration (and with ADHD, mine is very easily broken!!). The DM has to enjoy the game too, and I enjoy games where the group work as a team, with lots of roleplaying, exploration and puzzle solving.

Now if they ALL want to play as greedy, evil characters then OK, I'll tailor the game to fit that - they can be nefarious, but I'll still insist on them having a common goal binding them together. However I don't DM for a group who want to do that, they are happy being heroes, and that means no selfishness.

Note that they are also *terrible* at book-keeping, insisting on a shared party loot sheet just makes everything so much simpler. The one player who is remotely organised handles that during play, and then divides it up after each adventure.

Oofta · Nov 15, 2017

Wulffolk said:
[MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION], [MENTION=284]Caliban[/MENTION], [MENTION=6801204]Satyrn[/MENTION]

I suppose I should have used the word unique instead of special, but I am sure that somebody would misconstrue that too. Of course it is the RP that makes a character special or unique. I can play a character with any set of stats and make it special or unique or fun. I don't need to have the best stats at the table, and have no problem playing a supporting role.

The point was that if everybody is the same then why bother. I did not claim that anybody was wrong, just that I do not understand the paradox of people choosing to be the same qhile wanting to be different. Of course, as evidenced by numerous threads, some with more than 200 pages, some people have entrenched positions and are resistant to differing views.

I get so tired of this justification for rolling. Everybody's entitled to their opinion, but ability scores are about the least important aspect of the character that makes them unique.

In addition wizards are probably going to be have their highest ability score in intelligence, bards in charisma whether you use point buy or roll. How much of a difference does it really make?

With point buy/array ability scores fade into the background and you focus instead on build, options, characterizations and story.

It's not "Bob the Half Orc Barbarian who got lucky and had a 20 strength at level 1", it's "Bob the Half Orc Barbarian who believes that squirrels are secretly evil spirits" or whatever hook you choose to give your character.

If you enjoy the game where your characters are defined by a one time roll of the dice, go for it. Me? I'd rather have characters defined by personality (not that the two are mutually exclusive).