D&D 5E Hang Time - What if you jump farther than your speed?

Oofta said:

Yep, getting hit or affected by a spell while jumping could suck. Whether that happens because another creature's turn happens or because a readied action is triggered doesn't really matter.

Maybe there was an invisible giant with a readied action to throw a boulder at anyone that attempts the jump. Or anyone that crosses a certain point hits a ward that knocks them unconscious. Or there's a wall of force that they splat against. These are all edge cases ... but so is the whole scenario of ending a turn mid-air.

I get that people don't want to deal with it, and that's fine. But to say things like hitting someone mid-air could never happen during a PC's turn? Not true.

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Uhhh.. the reason obviously that i didnt choose wall of force but psychic damage and sleep was to spotlight some "narrative" or "pc perspective" problems the "hang there" creates while ptetending to be designed to handle the "pc perspective"

Did not notice the line of posts saying someone could not be affected by things (or hit) mid air. But, in as much as those claims are running wild, goid thing you have clarified thats not how it works in your games.

5ekyu said:

Uhhh.. the reason obviously that i didnt choose wall of force but psychic damage and sleep was to spotlight some "narrative" or "pc perspective" problems the "hang there" creates while ptetending to be designed to handle the "pc perspective"

Did not notice the line of posts saying someone could not be affected by things (or hit) mid air. But, in as much as those claims are running wild, goid thing you have clarified thats not how it works in your games.

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Just to clarify - let's say as a DM I have a bridge with some guards at the far end. In addition, I thought it made sense to put a glyph of warding on the bridge to incapacitate enemies since you can dictate who gets affected by the glyph. A PC decides to bypass the bridge (and the guards) [by jumping the gorge instead of crossing the bridge] but jumps close enough to the bridge to trigger the glyph. They may be knocked unconscious mid-jump on their turn and I'll have to deal with it.

No different than if the PC ended their turn mid-air and the NPC caster put them to sleep.

A PC doesn't have plot armor because I have to deal with something unexpected in my games. Being able to deal with the unexpected is part of the fun for me as a player and a DM.

Oofta said:

Just to clarify - let's say as a DM I have a bridge with some guards at the far end. In addition, I thought it made sense to put a glyph of warding on the bridge to incapacitate enemies since you can dictate who gets affected by the glyph. A PC decides to bypass the bridge (and the guards) [by jumping the gorge instead of crossing the bridge] but jumps close enough to the bridge to trigger the glyph. They may be knocked unconscious mid-jump on their turn and I'll have to deal with it.

No different than if the PC ended their turn mid-air and the NPC caster put them to sleep.

A PC doesn't have plot armor because I have to deal with something unexpected in my games. Being able to deal with the unexpected is part of the fun for me as a player and a DM.

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Gotcha but must say "i have to deal with it" doesnt seem to explain much or show anything beneficial sbout the hang-time ruling.

Are there foljs saying jumping would get around a glyph or other AoE effect that you feel beeds to be managed differently? I may have missed those posts.

Where is the thread on "jumps give you plot armor" that you are refuting?

I thought the kinda main subject here was how to resolve partial jumps over turn breaks.

Some suggest a hang time approach.
Some suggest more "not on this turn approach" since the action wont complete.
Others (me at least) suggest using the skill check and options for longer jumps to resolve it in the first turn, which gives the player and character time to decide if they want to try or not.
I am sure other options have come along.

But none of the above serm to have implied plot armor... None serm to eliminate interference... They just switch the timing as to when things start and resolve.

But again, good to see you iron out that in your game glyphs can affect jumping creatures in some circumstances as i suppose thst has been in dispute somewhere i missed.

5ekyu said:

Gotcha but must say "i have to deal with it" doesnt seem to explain much or show anything beneficial sbout the hang-time ruling.

Are there foljs saying jumping would get around a glyph or other AoE effect that you feel beeds to be managed differently? I may have missed those posts.

Where is the thread on "jumps give you plot armor" that you are refuting?

I thought the kinda main subject here was how to resolve partial jumps over turn breaks.

Some suggest a hang time approach.
Some suggest more "not on this turn approach" since the action wont complete.
Others (me at least) suggest using the skill check and options for longer jumps to resolve it in the first turn, which gives the player and character time to decide if they want to try or not.
I am sure other options have come along.

But none of the above serm to have implied plot armor... None serm to eliminate interference... They just switch the timing as to when things start and resolve.

But again, good to see you iron out that in your game glyphs can affect jumping creatures in some circumstances as i suppose thst has been in dispute somewhere i missed.

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My understanding of one of the main reasons to not allow a PC's jump to span turns is because people don't want to deal with what happens if a PC is targeted while jumping by a spell or attack when it's not the PC's turn.

My point is that being targeted or affected by a spell while jumping could easily happen during someone's turn.

Others seem to have an objection because the action can't be completed ... which I just don't get to be honest. I don't understand why it matters. If someone is falling a significant distance the fall is not resolved in one turn either. There are any number of other things I've seen players do that are not completed in one turn such as lighting a slow burning fuse some non-combat objective in the middle of a fight.

As far as how far you can jump on your turn, if you want to allow people to exceed their normal movement capability now and then that's fine. But to me it falls back into the "all actions must be completed in a single turn". I just don't see a need for it.

Oofta said:

My understanding of one of the main reasons to not allow a PC's jump to span turns is because people don't want to deal with what happens if a PC is targeted while jumping by a spell or attack when it's not the PC's turn.

My point is that being targeted or affected by a spell while jumping could easily happen during someone's turn.

Others seem to have an objection because the action can't be completed ... which I just don't get to be honest. I don't understand why it matters. If someone is falling a significant distance the fall is not resolved in one turn either. There are any number of other things I've seen players do that are not completed in one turn such as lighting a slow burning fuse some non-combat objective in the middle of a fight.

As far as how far you can jump on your turn, if you want to allow people to exceed their normal movement capability now and then that's fine. But to me it falls back into the "all actions must be completed in a single turn". I just don't see a need for it.

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So the plot armor thing is just something you kinda insert into others positions and then dismiss? Ok?

As for the long falls, I understand that yes, one can work to fashion a linkage there but it's not one that seems to hold much water to me.

Falling is involuntary, not voluntary (as a movement type) and the rules already treat those very differently. So, deciding to in this case house rule to declare jumping in this case works like involuntary movement so it can hold between turns (falls) but then one has to wonder how much like involuntary movement it is? Do jumps now not provoke AO too? Falls dont and since treating jumps like falls in this case is important to this ruling, one wonders.

I think the hyperbole of portraying "prefer to resolve voluntary movement during your turn" as somehow equating to insisting all actions must complete in a turn, as some have) is a bit off.

As I said earlier and seems to have been dodged, the hang-there creates a number of equal edge cases like sleep or psychic KO during the jump which are rather dicey and by expanding the time frame to "an entire round" and linking in next turns movement to finish the jump adds to that.

To me it opens more pitfalls narratively than it covers that directly impact the suspension of disbelief.

That's why I prefer to try and resolve it both narratively and mechanically with the core mechanics and the called out athletics options to resolve the voluntary part as is.

5ekyu said:

As I said earlier and seems to have been dodged, the hang-there creates a number of equal edge cases like sleep or psychic KO during the jump which are rather dicey and by expanding the time frame to "an entire round" and linking in next turns movement to finish the jump adds to that.

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I don't understand why you think I'm dodging any issue. The odds of someone ending their turn mid-air in my campaign are incredibly small. It's just as likely that something (sleep, psychic KO) could hit while they are jumping that chasm during their turn.

I've never encountered either one, but from an end-result point of view they would be the same. The PC would be unconscious for the remainder of their leap. To paraphrase Newton a body in motion stays in motion unless acted upon by an outside force. So the incapacitated PC would still probably land in their target space probably with some minor damage.

Whether that happens during 1 turn or across 2 has no impact.

Oofta said:

I don't understand why you think I'm dodging any issue. The odds of someone ending their turn mid-air in my campaign are incredibly small. It's just as likely that something (sleep, psychic KO) could hit while they are jumping that chasm during their turn.

I've never encountered either one, but from an end-result point of view they would be the same. The PC would be unconscious for the remainder of their leap. To paraphrase Newton a body in motion stays in motion unless acted upon by an outside force. So the incapacitated PC would still probably land in their target space probably with some minor damage.

Whether that happens during 1 turn or across 2 has no impact.

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If one is concerned with the mechanics at all, and if one is presenting it as compleying a jump using movement from two turns, then the fact that the second turn has no movement to spend would seem to be something worth a thought.

Thats part of the issue.
As it is, the result seems to be hang time leap, get sleep, get now free involuntary movement on next turn.

Sounds cool.

But if you as gm are going to pre-spend their next turns movement and have it apply when they jump even if they get ko, or sleep, or paralyzed that is certainly something a player/character can use.

"I move 30'on my race to the sunlight... I dash 3p' more and jump knowing that jump means even if the vampire uses hold person on their turn i will still newtonian-style cover that next 15' (assume 15 str) into the light" etc.

Unless you require a gap to jump, you are giving everyone an added "pre-spend your jump from next turn" just with a "hang out here" in the resolution phase.

Which is awesome.
.
Can pcs pre-spend other activities from future turns or just movement?

Like, could they pre-spend any attacks and get them to go off next turn even if "paralyzed"?

5ekyu said:

If one is concerned with the mechanics at all, and if one is presenting it as compleying a jump using movement from two turns, then the fact that the second turn has no movement to spend would seem to be something worth a thought.

Thats part of the issue.
As it is, the result seems to be hang time leap, get sleep, get now free involuntary movement on next turn.

Sounds cool.

But if you as gm are going to pre-spend their next turns movement and have it apply when they jump even if they get ko, or sleep, or paralyzed that is certainly something a player/character can use.

"I move 30'on my race to the sunlight... I dash 3p' more and jump knowing that jump means even if the vampire uses hold person on their turn i will still newtonian-style cover that next 15' (assume 15 str) into the light" etc.

Unless you require a gap to jump, you are giving everyone an added "pre-spend your jump from next turn" just with a "hang out here" in the resolution phase.

Which is awesome.
.
Can pcs pre-spend other activities from future turns or just movement?

Like, could they pre-spend any attacks and get them to go off next turn even if "paralyzed"?

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They aren't pre-spending anything. They are committed to a course of movement based on what they've done. You can't really change direction mid-leap. No different than if they had leaped off a thousand foot cliff and were still falling at the end of their turn.

If on their turn the extra height of their leap allowed them to see their target square contained a trap that they hadn't seen before they still couldn't change where they were going to land. No difference.

I don't see why this is a hard concept.

Oofta said:

This is where we just agree to disagree. The stated intent is to leap with enough forward and upward momentum to clear the chasm.

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Here's [MENTION=82779]MechaPilot[/MENTION]'s stated action declaration: "I leap across the chasm to the extent of my remaining movement", so if she has 10 feet of movement left, her intent is to leap 10 feet out into the chasm. The result of such action is to fall, and sure there's some forward momentum, but this is a long jump which starts and ends at floor-level, so any forward movement beyond the 10 feet is taking place down in the chasm, below floor-level.

And this:

Oofta said:

Your DM ruling is that you don't want to deal with that. So all forward momentum stops at the end of the turn, basic Newtonian physics is ignored, and the PC plummets to their possible death.

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You're misrepresenting my position. You've done this several times in this thread. I think I've explained my actual position well enough.

Hriston said:

Here's [MENTION=82779]MechaPilot[/MENTION]'s stated action declaration: "I leap across the chasm to the extent of my remaining movement", so if she has 10 feet of movement left, her intent is to leap 10 feet out into the chasm. The result of such action is to fall, and sure there's some forward momentum, but this is a long jump which starts and ends at floor-level, so any forward movement beyond the 10 feet is taking place down in the chasm, below floor-level.

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No one would say that if their intent was to cross the chasm.

The way you run your game, you would tell them that they cannot leap across the chasm this turn because they don't have enough movement. That instead, they could jump down and continue their movement next turn.

I would let them know that they will be mid-leap until their next turn. That once they leap, they've committed to the leap and that the enemy may target them while they are mid-leap.

That's all. If I misrepresented what you said I apologize.