D&D 5E DMG Preview: The Multiverse

SkidAce · Nov 20, 2014

MasterTrancer · Nov 20, 2014

Savage Wombat said:
As a Planescape fan, I don't think I'd ever realized a design intent that you could go "sideways" in Sigil and wrap around to the other side of town. And I'd always enjoyed introducing primes to Sigil with the "and the city extends to the horizon and goes up ... up ... up until you can see the other side of it overhead."

Your shouldn't go sideways in fact: Sigil is built so that the buildings on either side have no windows facing "outward".

MasterTrancer · Nov 20, 2014

Dire Bare said:
Sorry Morrus, and more importantly, DMZ2112. Lost my temper there.

@ Aramis Erak: While I'm not up on my geometric shapes, I do understand that a torus and a ring are not the same thing. Your second paragraph makes the distinction clear, to me at least.

But I still fail to see the practical difference between a torus-shaped city and a ring-shaped city when described in "layman's terms". Describing Sigil as a ring, rather than a torus, is technically wrong . . . but who cares? It doesn't make folks who aren't familiar with the term "torus" stupid, or WotC "coddling" or "dumbing down" to use the term "ring" instead.

Before I purchased my first Planescape product, I'd never heard of a torus before. And outside of the Planescape literature, I've never encountered the term anywhere else. If I describe Sigil to my players as a city on the inside of a torus, I'll get blank stares. If I instead describe it as on the inside of a ring, they immediately get it and have a pretty accurate picture (if not completely accurate picture) of what Sigil looks like. Win. I can always later have some smarty-pants Guvner lecture them on the fine differences between a torus and a ring.

A more common nane for the torus is "donut", BTW

pemerton · Nov 21, 2014

Dire Bare said:
Sigil has never actually been a true torus (closed), but is open on the inside of the ring.

Savage Wombat said:
As a Planescape fan, I don't think I'd ever realized a design intent that you could go "sideways" in Sigil and wrap around to the other side of town.

I'm not much of a Planescape fan, but I've always assumed that Sigil was on the inside of a torus in the literal sense ie a closed donut shape.

So I've always assumed that you could loop around and come back to your starting point both the long way and the short way.

This also explains why you can't see the spire at the centre of Concordant Opposition - when you are closest to it, it is underneath the "ground" that you are standing on, on the inside of the torus.

MasterTrancer said:
Your shouldn't go sideways in fact: Sigil is built so that the buildings on either side have no windows facing "outward".

I don't really follow this - can you explain with a bit more detail? What do you mean by "sideways"? And what do you mean by "building on either side [either side of what?] have no windows facing 'outward' [what direction is outward, given the whole thing is on the inside of a torus?]"?

Savage Wombat · Nov 21, 2014

pemerton said:
I don't really follow this - can you explain with a bit more detail? What do you mean by "sideways"? And what do you mean by "building on either side [either side of what?] have no windows facing 'outward' [what direction is outward, given the whole thing is on the inside of a torus?]"?

Well, it's not properly a torus - but if you imagine the inside of a bicycle tire, with the "sky" where the open part is, you get a city that's got no end in one direction but has walls on the sides.

pemerton · Nov 21, 2014

Savage Wombat said:
Well, it's not properly a torus - but if you imagine the inside of a bicycle tire, with the "sky" where the open part is, you get a city that's got no end in one direction but has walls on the sides.

If it's actually the inside of a tyre, than I agree with [MENTION=18182]Dire Bare[/MENTION] - describing it as a ring (especially if the edges of the ring have walls) seems like a very minor difference of little practical significance.

But the picture someone posted upthread looked like a literal torus to me. Or is that picture not canonical?

gribble · Nov 21, 2014

pemerton said:
But the picture someone posted upthread looked like a literal torus to me. Or is that picture not canonical?

Here is the original boxed set map - the image at the top makes it clear it's a "tire lying on it's side" rather than a true torus. Which is a shame, I always thought it was a missed opportunity to not make it an actual torus - I never saw the purpose of having an open side.

SkidAce · Nov 21, 2014

There was something in the original books I read for Planescape that implied there was no opening. I might be able to dig it up.

There certainly is verbiage stating the only way in or out is via portal, which if it was open would not be true...you could fly.

Might have time to do research tomorrow.

gribble · Nov 21, 2014

SkidAce said:
There was something in the original books I read for Planescape that implied there was no opening.

If I recall correctly, there is actually txt saying the opposite - as Savage Wombat was saying. I recall it mentioning houses up against the edges, with no openings (doors/windows, etc), and that there was "nothing" beyond. Even if you climbed to the top of the buildings and jumped off, you'd jump into nothingness. So no way to fly in or out.

Always seemed kind of silly to me when the easy solution would have been to just make it a proper torus.

Savage Wombat · Nov 21, 2014

I like SkidAce's picture better anyway. Where's that from?

D&D 5E DMG Preview: The Multiverse

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