D&D 5E Spending time [Encounter pacing and Resting restrictions]

Harzel said:

It's interesting @CaptZapp chose to post now with a reference to that Angry article, since Angry just posted this http://theangrygm.com/hacking-time-in-dnd/ a few days ago, which seems to reflect a slightly different attitude.

Click to expand...

This is actually a brilliant start for this discussion.

Not Angry's word hemorrhage or the actual specifics of his proposal, but the very concept of adding a cost to resting directly into the core of the game!

Let's first summarize Angry's post and save you five thousand words. (Disclaimer: Go read the blog if you want a perfect recollection. The exact way you choose to implement this is a detail; what's important is the concept. So I have probably gotten a few things wrong.)

Each time the characters take an action that spends time - searching for traps, examining some object, looting a fallen enemy, you the DM add a die to a pool of dice - the time pool. If the characters do something noisy, stupid or goose-chasey, add a small die (like a d4). If they're clever or efficient about it, add a larger die (like a d12).

You don't actually track time. We're talking "extra" time here. Time that stops up the regular adventure. Time "wasted". Don't add time dice for just venturing through the dungeon or fighting swamp monsters or getting the quest from the Innkeeper. Add time dice for stopping to check minute cracks in the ceiling, harvesting the body parts of swamp monsters or following the Innkeeper because the paranoid Barbarian thinks he's adding poison to their food. And most assuredly, add time dice for when the party takes a short or long rest "just in case".

Whenever you feel like it, you roll all the dice in the time pool. If any come up a "1" you have a complication. Traditionally, a wandering monster. But it could be a cave-in, or that the Lich King suddenly decides to order take-away.

If you take a rest, you add plenty of dice. If you take a longer rest, you add even more.

The point is, you've created a tangible risk factor. You've set a price on time itself.

And barring old-edition versions of Time Stop, the pesky adventurers can't stop you from piling more dice on the time pool. (They can avoid random monsters by Rope Trick, they can avoid inclement weather with Zone of Warmth, and they can avoid malnutrition with Create Food and Water, but nothing can circumvent you from getting a bigger time pool)

Finally, a mechanism that answers the original question "but why don't we simply rest before continuing" without you the DM having to axle the narrative burden of making up some bull story about the world coming to an end Real Soon Now™.

The most vital point is so important I had to start a new post to say it:

You can of course play with your dice behind your GM screen but that would completely and utterly miss the point.

The point is to create a cost for the players. So the players need to see the growing pile of dice.

Resource allocation in D&D is part of the game, not the story. And discouraging resting is, and should be, part of the game, not the story.

This mechanism promises to once and for all solve this thorny issue, since you don't have to nerf spells or change rest durations or use grittier healing variants or take the particulars of resting into account in your story.

Why? Because you don't have to roll the time pool any time soon! If the players hole up in their Tiny Hut, let them. The time dice will still be there when they venture outside again.

I just posted this in the other thread, but to repeat:

My group uses hero points, 2 per PC per session. HPs have to be used during the session, or are forfeited, i.e., they don't carry over to the next session. HPs can be used for re-rolls, adding d6 to existing roll, recovering some hit points during combat, etc. I pretty much never give HPs to villains or NPCs. Now, I'll try giving the bad guys hero points whenever the party rests (other than during boring travel/shopping/etc.). They'll likely continue to rest a lot, but at least it will have a tangible cost, forcing them to think about it.

Another option: I give group hero points for specific actions during play. Whenever the party rests, they lose one of those group hero points. Hmm...

The big issue is I don't want to punish them for smart play, which includes resting. However, I have one player who wants to long rest after every encounter, no matter how minor. So I want to discourage just that, which will be a balancing act.

Sounds like an interesting house rule. Let us know how it works out.

*Deleted by user*

So a few quick questions about the Time Pool (captain Timepool! Nah... just Time Pool):

1) When does this actually empty? After rolled? After the Adventure? Never? That might be a big issue for players (it would be for me).

2) Do you punish the players with a die if the party MUST rest due to time of day? You only get 8 hours of adventuring/traveling before you have to make Con saves for Forced March, and it seem rude to punish the players for resting became the game punishes them if they don't. I mean, eventually they'd have to rest or collapse of exhaustion... when you'd hit them with another die in the Time Pool.

3) If the Time Pool is supposed to be public, won't that give away information? If the barbarian is investigating the innkeeper and you DON'T add a die, they know he's actually important to the adventure. If you DO add a die, the player can just stop immediately, since they know it's a red herring. Seems counter productive to me.

I'd get rid of the whole different dice for punishing "cheesy", "stupid", and other badfunwrong things. Can quickly lead to players playing to the whims of the DM rather to the story. Yeah, if you're in a dungeon, and decide to rest, then there's a chance a monster will find you. The longer the rest, the higher the chance. No need to bring punishment into it. Even if they do have to rest (8 hrs. or forced march) it's still a reality of the game that you're taking a nap in the dungeon. Pedantic questioning of an NPC can lead to the NPC just getting annoyed at the group and just stop providing information to further questions. Add passive insight checks, where someone realizes "I think we're barking up the wrong tree here. Time to move on."

Hmm, kind-of reminds me of the Doom Pool from the Marvel Heroic RPG. It's neat, but feels a little too narrow in focus and one-sided.

You could expand it to being a 'soft' critical fumble system by having any natural 1 on the players' part add a die to the system - and similar failures by opposition either remove dice or add them to a separate, player-controlled pool. This actually slightly enhances the time-keeping aspect, because every unnecessary endeavour the players undertake (aside from actual rests) is more opportunities to roll a natural 1.

You could also expand the uses beyond simply an unspecified time-based threat - villains might be able to take dice from the pool and exchange them for bonus points to a roll. Players in a pinch could gain the same benefit by adding dice to the pool.

But there should be some carrot to go with the stick - negative reinforcement can be effective, but it's rarely fun. Achieving milestones in their current endeavour could result in dice being removed from the pool. Getting through a session with the time pool kept below a certain threshold could result in an XP bonus.

On adding dice while resting. Perhaps the way they go about establishing the resting situation could be a factor. Super safe rest situation? d12. Super dangerous (but very needed) rest situation? d4. Something in the middle? d8.

MarkB said:

Hmm, kind-of reminds me of the Doom Pool from the Marvel Heroic RPG. It's neat, but feels a little too narrow in focus and one-sided.

Click to expand...

It doesn't feel like D&D... whatever that means. It is interesting, though.