D&D General Vote Up a 5e-Alike: Fighter Draft 2, plus Archetypes (and a poll)

Warrior Questions

  • I like having the different martial classes as Warrior archetypes

    Votes: 5 38.5%
  • No, this sucks; make the Fighter, Barbarian, and Paladin their own classes

    Votes: 7 53.8%
  • I like the idea of standardized bonuses/penalties to saving throws

    Votes: 5 38.5%
  • No, don't do standardized saves like that, do it some other way (suggest in comments, please)

    Votes: 2 15.4%
  • Bring back weapon sizes! Halfing-sized polearms ahoy!

    Votes: 2 15.4%
  • No weapon sizes--that's too much extra detail.

    Votes: 6 46.2%
  • There are too many maneuvers (suggest which ones to remove)

    Votes: 4 30.8%
  • There are a good amount of maneuvers here

    Votes: 2 15.4%
  • There aren't enough maneuvers (suggest which ones to add)

    Votes: 3 23.1%

  • Poll closed .

CreamCloud0

One day, I hope to actually play DnD.
probably not quite the right thread but for this specifically but it's related to the current discussion of the poll's results, this is my interpretation of how the base classes and floating archetypes would've panned out, each of the 7 base classes would've shared a core mechanic with their two 'associated' subclasses, taking an associated subclass improves your total access to the mechanic but is not reliant on having the base class, and you could pair any class with any archetype, so with 7 classes and 14 archetypes to pair them it results in 98 possible combinations.
Base ClassBase Class MechanicsClass/Archetype Shared MechanicsAssociated Archetype 1Archetype MechanicsAssociated Archetype 2Archetype Mechanics
FighterFull Martial Wpn Prof/Wpn MasteryManeuvre Dice/Fighting StylesBattlemasterAction Surge/ Second WindWarlordTactician's Guidance
RogueThieves Tools + Trap MasterySneak attack/ ExpertiseAssassinMaster Poisoner/ Favoured EnemyRangerSharpshooting/
Herbalism
MonkImproved Mobility/Purity of SelfUnarmoured Defence/KiUnarmed WarriorImproved Unarmed AttacksBeserkerRage
WizardArcane FullcasterRitual CastingResearcherScroll MasterArtificerMagical Infusions
ClericDivine FullcasterChannel DivinityWarderAura of ProtectionPaladinSmiting Attack, Lay-On Hands
DruidPrimal FullcasterNatural ExplorerShifterWildshapeBeastmasterImproved Animal Companion
WarlockPact MagicEldritch Invocations/Versatile MagicCursed OnePact BoonsLesser MageHalfcasting
 
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Faolyn

(she/her)
maybe it's just cause i thought the class/archetype mix-n-match aspect and choose-your-own class building blocks design was much more supported in the initial stages of these threads but seeing 'fighter/barb/paladin should be their own classes' be so high voted is throwing me and kind of feel like a reversal of interests. though i must assume it's the same people voting in these polls and we haven't got a different crowd for different polls
I'd love to do the class/archetype mix-n-match (I have no problem tossing out this entire Warrior class) but I think we would have to really work on the basic chassis of all classes first. Which is completely doable, but I would really need some help to figure that out. And I also fully admit that I'm really doing this backwards--but that's ADHD for ya; class design holds my attention more than figuring out combat.

Anyhoo. So, OK. Let's say that we have the following classes: bard, berserker, cleric, druid, fighter, monk (to be renamed?), paladin, ranger, rogue, sorcerer, warlock, warlord (to be renamed?) wizard. I'm not quite so daring as to want to also include an artificer and psion right away. Unless people have Ideas for them.

Now, even if we don't combine martials into a single class, I wouldn't mind trimming the number of classes down anyway. If only because it's easier. I like your list of base classes, although I wouldn't mind sticking a bard in there. But if we decide to keep all the classes, they'd need to be rather simple, and the archetypes a bit more complex. The only things a berserker would get are higher HD and rage; the only thing a cleric would get are a very basic channel divinity (turn some sort of supernatural being) and spells. Obviously shared archetypes don't have to be made available to every class, but they could be. So, some possible shared archetypes:

Archer. Any; the abilities could even be usable on cantrips (since we've decided that only cantrips and certain iconic spells will be damage-dealing).

Beastmaster: Any; if the base class is a martial, the beast could be either a Small/Medium combat-capable creature or a Medium/Large mount. If the base class is an "expert" type, the beast could be stealthier (e.g., a bird trained for surveillance or a rat or monkey trained to filch keys and other small items). If the base class is a caster, the beast could be an advanced familiar.

Brawler: Martial/expert only; heavier reliance on unarmed attacks and for monks that rely on strength.

Demon/Dragon/Elemental/Spirit/Death/Fey-Bound: Any; they could imbue attacks and spells with specialized energy and would gain access to a few other abilities. (Obviously, this would actually be multiple different archetypes--even I'm not crazy enough to try to make a single "Monster-Bound" class!)

Gladiator: Any; emphasis on showy abilities.

Healer: Expert/caster only; gains mundane healing ability and healing spells (in addition to whatever magic the character may already have). This could be written up like, if you have magic, expend a spell slot to perform such-and-such healing ability; otherwise, can heal Cha times/long rest. Or something like that.

Killer: Any; a basic assassin/bounty hunter/killer-for-hire type. Abilities would be more social and investigative. You could also have an Inquisitor archetype along these lines, with emphasis on ties to courts or temples.

Knight: Martial only; emphasis on courtly knowledge, honor, training, and horse-riding. Yes, you can have a knightly berserker; why not?

Loremaster: Expert/caster only; lots of knowledge-based abilities.

Monster Hunter: Any; specialized knowledge, maybe the ability to make magical charms out of dead monster parts.

Sun-Blessed/Tempest: Martial/caster only; increased movement, battlefield control, imbuing attacks and spells with fire/radiant or lightning/thunder damage.

Wildborn: Any; talk to and shapechange into plants and beasts.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
probably not quite the right thread but for this specifically but it's related to the current discussion of the poll's results, this is my interpretation of how the base classes and floating archetypes would've panned out, each of the 7 base classes would've shared a core mechanic with their two 'associated' subclasses, taking an associated subclass improves your total access to the mechanic but is not reliant on having the base class, and you could pair any class with any archetype, so with 7 classes and 14 archetypes to pair them it results in 98 possible combinations.
Base ClassBase Class MechanicsClass/Archetype Shared MechanicsAssociated Archetype 1Archetype MechanicsAssociated Archetype 2Archetype Mechanics
FighterFull Martial Wpn Prof/Wpn MasteryManeuvre Dice/Fighting StylesBattlemasterAction Surge/ Second WindWarlordTactician's Guidance
RogueThieves Tools + Trap MasterySneak attack/ ExpertiseAssassinMaster Poisoner/ Favoured EnemyRangerSharpshooting/
Herbalism
MonkImproved Mobility/Purity of SelfUnarmoured Defence/KiUnarmed WarriorImproved Unarmed AttacksBeserkerRage
WizardArcane FullcasterRitual CastingResearcherScroll MasterArtificerMagical Infusions
ClericDivine FullcasterChannel DivinityWarderAura of ProtectionPaladinSmiting Attack, Lay-On Hands
DruidPrimal FullcasterNatural ExplorerShifterWildshapeBeastmasterImproved Animal Companion
WarlockPact MagicEldritch Invocations/Versatile MagicCursed OnePact BoonsLesser MageHalfcasting
Fighter - Knight - Berserker
Rogue/Thief - Assassin - Swashbuckler
Wizard - Sorcerer (or Warlock) - Artificer (or Necromancer)
Cleric - Paladin - Druid
Ranger - Bard - Monk

That's 15 classes in five somewhat-fuzzy groups, the last of which is a catch-all for things that don't fit anywhere else.

All we need, I think.
 



Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
Just an idea for mix and match classes, it hasnt been thought through except for the idea that the Triggered Feat has to be triggered by Talent before it (so the Tempest Barbarians lightning smite can only be triggered from Rage).

Essential what it means is that a Player chooses their Base Feature and are considered that Class, then at Level X they either get the Base Talent or can mix and match other talents, then theres a big list of triggered feats that can be chosen at levels Y

NB things like Cunning Action would need to be expanded, and not sure about Warlock - I’ve wrapped patrons into Channel Divinity but they may not work…

CLASSBASE FEATURESHARED TALENTSTRIGGERED FEAT
FighterMartial StyleManoeuvreAction Surge
ClericDomainChannel DivinityHeal
RogueCunning ActionExpertiseSneak Attack
MageArcane TraditionRitual CastingArcane Recovery

then derived subclasses eg
CLASSBASE FEATURESHARED TALENTTRIGGERED FEAT
PaladinMartial StyleChannel DivinitySmite
Tempest BarbarianMartial StyleRageSmite (Elemental)
ScoutCunning ActionManoeuvreSneak Attack
WarlockArcane TraditionChannel DivintySmite/Pact
DruidDomainWild Shape (Divinity)Heal
 
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Faolyn

(she/her)
Is there something specific you’re considering about them?
Mostly how complex they should be and how much of the heavy lifting the archetypes should be. Do we give each class the bare minimum (more like AD&D did), or do we go for new traits at every level 5e does?
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
Just an idea for mix and match classes, it hasnt been thought through except for the idea that the Triggered Feat has to be triggered by Talent before it (so the Tempest Barbarians lightning smite can only be triggered from Rage).

Essential what it means is that a Player chooses their Base Feature and are considered that Class, then at Level X they either get the Base Talent or can mix and match other talents, then theres a big list of triggered feats that can be chosen at levels Y
I'm not entirely sure I follow. So, fighters would get a Martial Style and, presumably, maneuvers, and would only be able to use Action Surge if they also used Action Surge? And clerics would only get a (bonus?) healing ability if they Channeled Divinity? (Also, this seems to indicate that you think the classes should be very minimalist in nature, with the archetypes having the most features).

This actually suggests a rather different class structure, more point-buy (bit not entirely) rather than the typical D&D method. A character could pick one Base Feature and one Talent, and the combination of the two would indicate the triggered ability. When you go up in level, your Base Feature and Talent unlock new abilities. Which is very different from the norm, but not a bad idea. I actually think I like it.

So, very roughly:

Everybody gets certain features at certain levels, such as the Learnings and the Reputation. These just get additional options to make them useful for everyone. So, for Reputation, in addition to Formidable Foe, Inspiring Leader, One to be Feared, Renowned Hero, or Fearless, there's also things like Wise One, Gets The Job Done, Knower Of Dark Secrets, whatever.

Your pick a Base Feature, like Fighting Style or Spellcasting (where you pick which school of magic you can cast: arcane, divine, etc.) These abilities improve with level.

You pick a Talent, like Maneuvers or Channel Divinity. (Optionally, just call it Channeling, then warlocks and clerics can share.)

Your "Feats" (which should be renamed, so they aren't confused with regular feats or with Features) have either a Feature or a Talent as prereq (or for powerful Feats, both). There could be a lot more than what you suggest, actually. Extra Attack and Inner Fire could be Feats that require Fighting Style, for instance.

Every X number of levels, you can pick another Talent. Every Y number of levels, you can pick another Feat, as long as you have the prerequisite Talent.

Then, we include "archetypes" which are basically what you did with the derived subclasses. Take Fighting Style, Channel Divinity, and either Smite or Heal and you get a paladin.

It's very different from D&D, but I think it could potentially work very well.
 

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