Two New Settings For D&D This Year

Yaarel · Jun 5, 2018

The impression that I get is, for some players, a ‘new setting’ is the same as the old setting but all the characters wear a wig.

Personally, I want a *new* setting. Or at least make it easier to build my own setting.

Jester David · Jun 5, 2018

Jer said:
Also too - and this is all just my opinion - I'm not sure the hunger is there for new D&D settings like there was back in the 90s and during the d20 explosion of the early 2000s. There are so many options available now setting wise that a new one really would need to bring something truly different to the mix. The 90s was a big experimental time for D&D when it came to settings - how far can we push this game engine designed for vaguely Dark Ages fantasy game play. Can we do fantasy space? Can we do fantasy horror? What about fantasy Victorian horror? Does it have to be European - we had an Asian supplement in the 80s, what about Arabian Nights style? What about different kinds of fantasy - can we push the game engine to handle a pseudo-Renaissance level of tech? Can we do weird other-dimensional fantasy? Can we dial it back to its roots and still do John Carter of Mars style fantasy?

At this point a new setting would need to bring something new to the table and not be a rehash of what's already out there to be worth doing. I think there's a reason that we only really got one major new D&D setting in 3rd edition - Eberron - and it's because Eberron brought something new to the table (investigative pulp fantasy). And even there as much as I love Eberron I'm not sure if it were released today it would be seen as "different enough" to be a successful new setting. I think any new setting would need to fill a niche that isn't already being filled, and it's tough to see an empty niche that would be large enough to justify coming up with a totally new setting.

I agree with most of your points and want to offer a couple others.

First, WotC already has a dozen settings they're not touching. Adding another new setting just makes it harder to support all the settings they own. And makes it harder to retain those trademarks that aren't being used.

Second, back in the 2e days, only TSR could make D&D settings. But that hasn't been true for almost twenty years. There's so many amazing settings out there that range from traditional fantasy to science fantasy to grim realism that I don't think WotC really *needs* to make a new world.

CapnZapp · Jun 5, 2018

When it comes to Birthright, there's two draws that isn't featured anywhere else, which makes Cerilia nothing like "Forgotten Realms 12"...

a) the domain layer on the map, inviting you to look at adventures not only from a individual perspective. Instead your rogue runs the Thieves Guild, your Cleric runs your State Church, and your Wizard runs your Magic College. Each player character gets an economic resource to govern; essentially "thief" points, "divine" points, and so on. The fighter - the King - gets "coin points". All is used to influence your neighbors, recruit and send out armies and envoys, ...
b) the idea that you play one kingdom, and iconic monsters - the Gorgon, the Hydra or the Manticore - runs others. Imagine, if you will, some Druid casting "awaken" on one particular specimen of each of the coolest and most classic Monster Manual monsters. And that this guy then gets lots of class levels to become a high-level antagonist.

The other bits, like dragon (scion?) blood, is mostly just powergaming and can be ignored or brought down to 5E standards. But what makes Birthright its own thing is this playing Risk with your most fearsome monster opponents.

The actual world is generic enough. Actually, I could see a domain layer being produced for Forgotten Realms. An alternate time line as it were. I could even accept that there are regular Gorgons, Hydras and Manticores... and then there's the monster rulers.

But no,

Gradine · Jun 5, 2018

If they hadn't already just done so in 4e, I'd say we'd be more likely to see a new setting that captures some of the feel of Greyhawk without it actually being Greyhawk; ie: few bastions of safety and civilization, a lot of the world is ill-defined, in other words, Points of Light. At this point I don't see either Greyhawk/Blackmoor/Mystara or Nentir Vale to see a 5e revival beyond opening up on DM's Guild, and I also don't really see a new setting in the works either (if anything, I'd more likely expect to a expect a total genre shift, ala D20 Modern or Starfinder, not that I consider that very likely either).

We're not gonna see Dark Sun without Psionics and we're not gonna see Eberron with the Artificer, so until those two drop in final form it's very unlikely we'll here anything about them. Planescape & Spelljammer seem the most likely, and I'm expecting that they'll try to find some way to merge or otherwise connect the two (if we've learned anything WotC's business model for 5e, they'll try to make the product as broad as possible to increase the market). I'd expect it to drop in one of two forms:
1): Primus's Primer to the Planes (seems unlikely given Tome of Foes' content, but could still be possible)
2): The Great March (adventure that kicks off in <insert Sword Coast city here> but swiftly sends adventures to Sigil and has them either fiddling around with portals and/or gives them a spelljammer).

Paul Farquhar · Jun 5, 2018

few bastions of safety and civilization, a lot of the world is ill-defined, in other words, Points of Light.

That's even more a feature of Spelljammer.

2): The Great March (adventure that kicks off in <Skullport> but swiftly sends adventures to Sigil and has them either fiddling around with portals and/or gives them a spelljammer).

Zeromaru X · Jun 5, 2018

Jester David said:
15) Nentir Vale. Originally, this was supposed to be in the Realms. They just changed the proper names when they decided not to make FR the default setting of 4e. This setting is bland. It's a mishmash of ideas created randomly by dozens of different people as books were written without planning or real forethought. The whole point was a generic world people could build into their own setting or place into whatever existing setting they're using. There's no hook, and nothing to distinguish it from every other generic fantasy world WotC does. Odds: Medium. Really, because it's so simple, they could repeat the lore pretty quickly. And it's hook of being a simple setting people can make their own still works.

I have to say that this is not enterily true. The world of the Nentir Vale assumes there is no Superpower and that the Armaggedon is coming. Unlike generic fantasy worlds, the Nentir Vale is a world in a pretty dark age.

To elaborate, the generic settings of D&D assume that humans are the dominant race in the world, that there is the Kingdom that protects the world (think of FR's Cormyr or the Lords' Alliance) and that the evil forces are keep at bay by the good guys (Elminster, Dritzz and other super powered npc), and that the gods keep at bay the supernatural Evils mortals can only fathom.

In the Nentir Vale, the Kingdom and the super powered NPCs all got wiped out in the last war, and while the evil forces didn't fared well either, they survived and are mustering forces to wipe out what remains of civilization. As a result, humans are not the dominant race. In fact, there is no dominant race, just scattered survivors that band together to survive the next orc horde.

Heck, even the gods got wiped out by the elder evils, and the current pantheon is composed of just the survivors of the Dawn War. You can see evil gods going along with good gods, because is the only way they can survive the next attack from their enemies. So, this is way different to the Realms, where Bane, Shar and Lolth can plot to conquer the world without fear of reprisal.

My point is that this setting is different to and have its unique hooks, when compared with the more vanilla depictions of the more common D&D settings, like Greyhawk or the Realms.

But, I agree with your opinion about the odds of this setting being in the next product. And those of the other settings, as well.

generic · Jun 5, 2018

AmerginLiath said:
I would love to see Birthright revived as another of the D&D “board games,” perhaps using two boards (a domain board and an adventure board) with an option to continue the same Domain Game across multiple games of the Adventure Game.

That would be interesting.

Jester David · Jun 5, 2018

Zeromaru X said:
I have to say that this is not enterily true. The world of the Nentir Vale assumes there is no Superpower and that the Armaggedon is coming. Unlike generic fantasy worlds, the Nentir Vale is a world in a pretty dark age.

To elaborate, the generic settings of D&D assume that humans are the dominant race in the world, that there is the Kingdom that protects the world (think of FR's Cormyr or the Lords' Alliance) and that the evil forces are keep at bay by the good guys (Elminster, Dritzz and other super powered npc), and that the gods keep at bay the supernatural Evils mortals can only fathom.

In the Nentir Vale, the Kingdom and the super powered NPCs all got wiped out in the last war, and while the evil forces didn't fared well either, they survived and are mustering forces to wipe out what remains of civilization. As a result, humans are not the dominant race. In fact, there is no dominant race, just scattered survivors that band together to survive the next orc horde.

Heck, even the gods got wiped out by the elder evils, and the current pantheon is composed of just the survivors of the Dawn War. You can see evil gods going along with good gods, because is the only way they can survive the next attack from their enemies. So, this is way different to the Realms, where Bane, Shar and Lolth can plot to conquer the world without fear of reprisal.

My point is that this setting is different to and have its unique hooks, when compared with the more vanilla depictions of the more common D&D settings, like Greyhawk or the Realms.

But, I agree with your opinion about the odds of this setting being in the next product. And those of the other settings, as well.

Cormyr is a pretty typical "good guy nation", but it hardly protects the world. It's one small nation. And it can even play the role of the "imperialistic bad guy" in a Dales campaign.
And most of the high level NPCs in the Realms seldom get involved, because that brings in their evil counterparts. They tend to work through smaller adventurers and proxies.

I also don't recall a singular kingdom that "protects the world" in Greyhawk or Mystara or Birthright. The Greyhawk has a lot of the same tropes as Nentir Vale; they could easily have set theVale in the Duchy of Geoff.

The catch is, there was no "big kingdom" in the Nerath/ Nentir Vale setting because it was never really expanded beyond the small valley. Except in the Conquest of Nerath board game that suggested there were several large "empires" still around, such as the Iron Circle, Karkoth, and Vailin. It implied the kingdom had fallen, but never really too deep into how large that kingdom was or what was around it.

The gloom and looming apocalypse in a world without heroes wasn't really "the hook" of the setting. Because there was none. Those were just some themes that slowly evolved as people added to the setting. It was purposely generic AF so DMs could make it their own. If a GM wanted the shining nation of Brighthome to the north, then the Shining Knights of that nation existed and held back the night. But if the DM instead wanted a bleak magical archipelago filled with undead corsairs and vampirates to the north, then that was also a thing.
The absence of name characters wasn't a hook or plan so much as the result of not having novels set in the world and avoiding having to many organisations and large groups that would lock DMs into certain concepts.

Zeromaru X · Jun 5, 2018

Jester David said:
Cormyr is a pretty typical "good guy nation", but it hardly protects the world. It's one small nation. And it can even play the role of the "imperialistic bad guy" in a Dales campaign.
And most of the high level NPCs in the Realms seldom get involved, because that brings in their evil counterparts. They tend to work through smaller adventurers and proxies.

I also don't recall a singular kingdom that "protects the world" in Greyhawk or Mystara or Birthright. The Greyhawk has a lot of the same tropes as Nentir Vale; they could easily have set theVale in the Duchy of Geoff.

The catch is, there was no "big kingdom" in the Nerath/ Nentir Vale setting because it was never really expanded beyond the small valley. Except in the Conquest of Nerath board game that suggested there were several large "empires" still around, such as the Iron Circle, Karkoth, and Vailin. It implied the kingdom had fallen, but never really too deep into how large that kingdom was or what was around it.

The gloom and looming apocalypse in a world without heroes wasn't really "the hook" of the setting. Because there was none. Those were just some themes that slowly evolved as people added to the setting. It was purposely generic AF so DMs could make it their own. If a GM wanted the shining nation of Brighthome to the north, then the Shining Knights of that nation existed and held back the night. But if the DM instead wanted a bleak magical archipelago filled with undead corsairs and vampirates to the north, then that was also a thing.
The absence of name characters wasn't a hook or plan so much as the result of not having novels set in the world and avoiding having to many organisations and large groups that would lock DMs into certain concepts.

Yet Cormyr stopped the Tuigan Horde in earlier editions, when no other kingdom could; and then led the coalition to stop the Netherese in the more resent war (that takes place within the timeline of 5e).

And yes, the Nentir Vale may have started simple, but by the end of 4e was well defined. Bringing Nentir Vale to 5e will be more than just bring the Vale. It will also include the whole Nerath background.

Jester David · Jun 5, 2018

Zeromaru X said:
Yet Cormyr stopped the Tuigan Horde in earlier editions, when no other kingdom could; and then led the coalition to stop the Netherese in the more resent war (that takes place within the timeline of 5e).

Yeah, they've won every enemy that threatens them. But what have they done against Thay? The Pirate Isles? The Zhentarim?
Did they do anything to stop dragons raging across the Sword Coast or giants rampaging in the North?

So long as you don't pick a fight with them, Cormyr'll stay out of whatever evil scheme is occurring.

Zeromaru X said:
And yes, the Nentir Vale may have started simple, but by the end of 4e was well defined. Bringing Nentir Vale to 5e will be more than just bring the Vale. It will also include the whole Nerath background.

Which defeats the whole purpose of Nentir Vale and makes it interesting and special. Because the Nentir Vale most people care about is the one in their game.

And for all the detail and expansion the Vale region received, most of that was vague backstory and very little expansion of the world beyond. It wasn't a world so much as a shotgun blast of random lore.

Two New Settings For D&D This Year

Yaarel

He Mage

Jester David

Hero

CapnZapp

Legend

Gradine

The Elephant in the Room (she/her)

Paul Farquhar

Legend

Zeromaru X

Arkhosian scholar and coffee lover

generic

On that metempsychosis tweak

Jester David

Hero

Zeromaru X

Arkhosian scholar and coffee lover

Jester David

Hero

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