Arcana of The Ancients: 5E Sci-Fantasy From Monte Cook Games Launches On KS

Reynard · Mar 18, 2019

I went with All PDFs to start since I am inclined to spend the $160 for All In if a couple more decent sized books unlock.

jayoungr · Mar 26, 2019

So how do the stretch goals work for this campaign, anyway? I'm used to stretch goals being included in addition to whatever is specified as the base reward level for a given tier. But this is the first time I've seen things like "All PDFs unlocked in this campaign" as a tier of its own. So do you only get those PDFs if you pledge at the proper tier, or do you get them with every tier? If you do get them at every tier, what's the purpose of the "All PDFs" tier? On the other hand, if you only get them when you pledge at a level that mentions unlocked PDFs, do they really count as stretch goals?

I'm confused.

Reynard · Mar 26, 2019

jayoungr said:
So how do the stretch goals work for this campaign, anyway? I'm used to stretch goals being included in addition to whatever is specified as the base reward level for a given tier. But this is the first time I've seen things like "All PDFs unlocked in this campaign" as a tier of its own. So do you only get those PDFs if you pledge at the proper tier, or do you get them with every tier? If you do get them at every tier, what's the purpose of the "All PDFs" tier? On the other hand, if you only get them when you pledge at a level that mentions unlocked PDFs, do they really count as stretch goals?

I'm confused.

The stretch goals only indicate what MCG is going to produce for the line (initially by way of the kickstarter anyway). You don't get them for free, though. You still have to pledge to the proper level to get whatever it is you want.

As it is I may back down to just the main book and order the monster book as an add on. I was a little disappointed that the $185K stretch goal was a a premium version of the book rather than additional sourcebooks. Unless there is a big surge at the end I don't see the number of books swelling to make "All In" worth it.

lkj · Mar 26, 2019

jayoungr said:
So how do the stretch goals work for this campaign, anyway? I'm used to stretch goals being included in addition to whatever is specified as the base reward level for a given tier. But this is the first time I've seen things like "All PDFs unlocked in this campaign" as a tier of its own. So do you only get those PDFs if you pledge at the proper tier, or do you get them with every tier? If you do get them at every tier, what's the purpose of the "All PDFs" tier? On the other hand, if you only get them when you pledge at a level that mentions unlocked PDFs, do they really count as stretch goals?

I'm confused.

You get precisely what they say you get in the given pledge tier. It's just that as the stretch goals are hit the value you get at a given tier increases. And that's it. So, as [MENTION=467]Reynard[/MENTION] points out, currently, the $160 level is not really a good value. They seem confident that it will be by the end, based on their previous experience.

I agree with [MENTION=467]Reynard[/MENTION] though that I was disappointed that their next stretch goal after a monster book was a premium version of the main book. I mean, it's neat, and it's a nice bonus. But personally, I'd much rather have my 'third' book be new content, which means that it's basically not a value added for me.

Here's hoping the campaign kicks into high gear after the next goal is hit, and they knock out a few more books. The company seems confident it will, and they have a lot of experience at this sort of thing. So, fingers crossed.

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lkj · Mar 26, 2019

I feel I should add, after my little bit of a downer post, that I think the Arcana of the Ancients idea is awesome. I think that even what they've hit so far is awesome (main book plus monster book). And I'm excited to get them even if it doesn't go any further. So I encourage folks to support it.

I just like the idea enough that I'd love to see them hit more stretch goals and be able to expand it.

Cheers,
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seankreynolds · Mar 26, 2019

jayoungr said:
So how do the stretch goals work for this campaign, anyway? I'm used to stretch goals being included in addition to whatever is specified as the base reward level for a given tier. But this is the first time I've seen things like "All PDFs unlocked in this campaign" as a tier of its own. So do you only get those PDFs if you pledge at the proper tier, or do you get them with every tier? If you do get them at every tier, what's the purpose of the "All PDFs" tier? On the other hand, if you only get them when you pledge at a level that mentions unlocked PDFs, do they really count as stretch goals?
I'm confused.

Hi, Sean from MCG again.

As the others above me said, you get what the backer level says you get. If a stretch goal means we make a new book (and PDF), and your backer level says "all the books in print" or "all the books in PDF," that's part of your backer rewards. If you're just at the "only AotA in PDF" backer level, you wouldn't get that extra book.

And that said, there are some kinds of stretch goals that go to all backers. Frex, if there was a stretch goal of "we add 32 pages to AotA" then obviously all backer levels that get AotA get that (we don't make a thinner version of the book for one level of backers and a thicker version of the book for another backer level).

jayoungr · Mar 26, 2019

Got it, re the stretch goals.

To be honest, not giving at least a PDF of the extra material to all the pledgers above a certain minimum level strikes me as kind of chintzy. I feel like calling them "stretch goals" in that case is misleading.

(I debated whether or not to say that with someone from the actual company on the thread, but well, this is how one gives feedback. It's not my intention to be rude.)

lkj · Mar 26, 2019

jayoungr said:
Got it, re the stretch goals.

Not giving at least a PDF of the extra material to all the pledgers above a certain minimum level strikes me as kind of chintzy. I feel like calling them "stretch goals" in that case is misleading.

(I debated whether or not to say that with someone from the actual company on the thread, but well, this is how one gives feedback. It's not my intention to be rude.)

Well, functionally, everyone $60 and above does get at least a pdf of all the stretch material, with the exception of the retailer pledge and the one where you get 'the best game ever' book.

That said, while I see what you are saying, I never really thought of stretch goals quite that way. Since it seems clear to me exactly what you get-- and you can change your pledge as you go-- it doesn't bother me. Maybe that's my lack of experience with kickstarters,

I think it's interesting to have pledge levels that only become enticing after a certain number of stretch goals are hit. Seems like an interesting gamble. It'll drag pledges down early on as people wait to see what stretch goals are hit. But if you're successful, it could accelerate the money that is collected as you go.

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jayoungr · Mar 26, 2019

lkj said:
Well, functionally, everyone $60 and above does get at least a pdf of all the stretch material, with the exception of the retailer pledge and the one where you get 'the best game ever' book.

At the $60 level you can't get a physical book. If you want a physical book, you have to pledge at least $160 to get ANY stretch goals, which frankly seems excessive to me.

That said, while I see what you are saying, I never really thought of stretch goals quite that way. Since it seems clear to me exactly what you get-- and you can change your pledge as you go-- it doesn't bother me. Maybe that's my lack of experience with kickstarters,

I am not a huge Kickstarter devotee, but I have backed a fair few over the last 5-6 years, and this is the first time I have ever seen one that set such a high threshhold to receive stretch goals.

I think it's interesting to have pledge levels that only become enticing after a certain number of stretch goals are hit. Seems like an interesting gamble. It'll drag pledges down early on as people wait to see what stretch goals are hit. But if you're successful, it could accelerate the money that is collected as you go.

It could also discourage people who might have been willing to pledge at lower levels from pledging at all. If there's very little difference between pledging in advance and just buying the book when it comes out, it decreases the incentive to pledge.

lkj · Mar 26, 2019

jayoungr said:
At the $60 level you can't get a physical book. If you want a physical book, you have to pledge at least $160 to get ANY stretch goals, which frankly seems excessive to me.

I am not a huge Kickstarter devotee, but I have backed a fair few over the last 5-6 years, and this is the first time I have ever seen one that set such a high threshhold to receive stretch goals.

It could also discourage people who might have been willing to pledge at lower levels from pledging at all. If there's very little difference between pledging in advance and just buying the book when it comes out, it decreases the incentive to pledge.

Well, you can do the $60 and get the physical book as an add on. But that's still $110, so I doubt it changes your feelings about it. And nor will I try!

I think they are relying on knocking out enough stretch goals to make each of the pledge levels a really good value. I think that has been their experience from past kickstarters (based on comments here and elsewhere). But I can't argue that until that happens the barrier to entry might seem a bit high. We'll see how it pans out. I'm hopeful.

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Arcana of The Ancients: 5E Sci-Fantasy From Monte Cook Games Launches On KS

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