D&D 5E Potions of Healing (and other common magical items)

Roger · Dec 10, 2014

1. That seems to have been working fine for me so far.

2. I dunno. Yes, no, maybe; I have no idea.

3. Sort of. As far as I can tell from the treasure tables, potions of healing are about twice as common as 1st-level scrolls and about five times more common than cantrip scrolls, so I've more-or-less been using that sort of availability.

Cheers,
Roger

Dausuul · Dec 10, 2014

AsmodeusDM said:
Potions of Healing are available in the PHB and are listed as a "common" magic item in the DMG alongside 1st level scrolls.

1. does this imply that potions of healing should be widely made available for pcs to purchase?

I would say that is the implication, yes. Not so much because they're Common items, but because they're listed in the PHB equipment list. Of course, the DM can always rule otherwise.

AsmodeusDM said:
2. If so; do potions of healing become the new CLW wand of this edition?

Doubtful. First, the potion is more than three times as expensive per hit point as the wand, in an edition where there are a lot more options for spending your money--it's not just about buying gear any more. Second, you need 47 potions to equal the healing potential of one wand; that's 23.5 pounds of potions (imagine lugging around three one-gallon jugs of milk everywhere), whereas the 3E wand was stated to weigh about 1 ounce. Third, just because you can buy a potion or three doesn't mean the local herbalist has 47 of them waiting to go. My experience may not be typical, but I've known few DMs who wouldn't balk at such a request.

AsmodeusDM said:
3. Should (or do) 1st level scrolls or other common magical items share the same availability as potions of healing?

I would say no, but could be persuaded to change that ruling. My argument is that the potion is in the PHB and the other items are not, implying that the potion is more widely available than other items. The logical counter-argument would be that the PHB has limited space and chose to list the magic item that is most widely useful, and the DMG suggests a price point of 50 gp for common items, equivalent to what the potion costs.

CrassPip · Dec 10, 2014

It seems the DMG has explicitly answered this question...
“…most magic items are so rare that they aren’t available for purchase. Common items, such as a potion of healing, can be procured from an alchemist, herbalist, or spellcaster. Doing so is rarely as simple as walking into a shop and selecting an item from a shelf. The seller might ask for a service, rather than coin.
"In a large city with an academy of magic or a major temple, buying and selling magic items might be possible... Even so, it’s likely to remain similar to the market for fine art in the real world, with invitation-only auctions and a tendency to attract thieves.”

Riley37 · Dec 10, 2014

Have you run NPC adversaries who use Potions of Healing in combat? I mean, if PCs expect to get in fights and tend to carry a PoH, then NPCs who also expect to get in fights might do the same. Which means that fallen foes might have PoH on their person, about as much as they might be wearing armor.

At low levels, regaining 8-10 HP is a reasonable use of an action. At higher levels, if you regain 8-10 HP while a foe does 10-20 HP, you're at a net loss.

Wolf118 · Dec 10, 2014

My group is thinking of creating our own potions, and these questions popped up after reading through the magic item creation rules.

The DMG tells you how to craft magic items, giving time and cost (25 gp/day up to the required amount). But this is the cost to make it, which is different than the selling price. The creator's time is worth something. Spending 20 days to craft an uncommon item, at 8 hours a day, means the creator has to have money coming in from other things. So what kind of markup is there on magic items?

This leads to a paradox with the base-level Healing potion. The PHB lists the sale price as 50 gp. But this is less than the creation cost. So are healing potions being sold at a loss? Or is the base healing potion less expensive to make? If so, what is the true creation cost, and what is the markup for the creator?

Ahrimon · Dec 11, 2014

Healing potions can be created with the crafting rules from the PHB. I believe proficiency in the herbalism kit is required.

Riley37 · Dec 11, 2014

Wolf118 said:
a paradox with the base-level Healing potion. The PHB lists the sale price as 50 gp. But this is less than the creation cost. So are healing potions being sold at a loss? Or is the base healing potion less expensive to make? If so, what is the true creation cost, and what is the markup for the creator?

Real answer: D&D is not a simulation of a real world. Listed prices for common items and trade goods are rough approximations for convenience, and even so that's much more detail than you'd get from the literature which inspired D&D (and most of the literature inspired by it). How much did it cost to forge Narsil?

Hand-waving rationalization: DMG tells you the cost for a PC to make a healing potion. There are NPCs who specialize in such things, and they benefit from economies of scale, better facilities and equipment, cheap guild apprentice labor, favorable deals with materials suppliers, and possibly subsidies. If the PC raw materials cost includes taxes and the NPC potion-maker gets supplies tax-free, that alone could make the difference.

Wolf118 · Dec 12, 2014

It's not a simulation, but a 200% difference is too much to hand wave. The difference between 50 gp and 100 gp is not a 'rough approximation'. If a PC wants to make healing potions for his party, he's paying twice the going rate. Besides, economies of scale? Did you read the DMG explanation of why magic items aren't normally available for sale? As is in commissioned items? That alone is going to bump the price because it's a single item run. It's not like the potion maker has a healing potion craft brewery going on in his back room, making gallons at a time. And your tax examples assumes then that every single NPC potion maker has some kind of tax-free advantage.

You're also comparing apples and oranges. The 50 gp is the selling price, whereas the 100 gp is the creation cost. If you sell items for what it costs to create, you're going out of business soon. And if you sell items for less than what it costs to make, you're foreclosing even sooner.

Riley37 said:
Real answer: D&D is not a simulation of a real world. Listed prices for common items and trade goods are rough approximations for convenience, and even so that's much more detail than you'd get from the literature which inspired D&D (and most of the literature inspired by it). How much did it cost to forge Narsil?

Hand-waving rationalization: DMG tells you the cost for a PC to make a healing potion. There are NPCs who specialize in such things, and they benefit from economies of scale, better facilities and equipment, cheap guild apprentice labor, favorable deals with materials suppliers, and possibly subsidies. If the PC raw materials cost includes taxes and the NPC potion-maker gets supplies tax-free, that alone could make the difference.

Wolf118 · Dec 12, 2014

And there's another exception to the rule. Healing potions are magic items. They should use the '25 gp/day' magic item creation rules, not the '5gp/day' downtime activities rule.

Unless there are two kinds of healing potions; one magical and one non-magical. But if the magical one costs 100 gp, and is rarely available, and the non-magical one is 50 gp, and any herbalist can brew, guess which one I'm buying? The only factor in favor of the magical version is 4 days creation time vs 10 days creation time for the non-magical.

Ahrimon said:
Healing potions can be created with the crafting rules from the PHB. I believe proficiency in the herbalism kit is required.

Wolf118 · Dec 12, 2014

And a possible resolution of my question:

http://thesageadvice.wordpress.com/2014/12/05/selling-magic-items/

Wolf118 said:
My group is thinking of creating our own potions, and these questions popped up after reading through the magic item creation rules.

The DMG tells you how to craft magic items, giving time and cost (25 gp/day up to the required amount). But this is the cost to make it, which is different than the selling price. The creator's time is worth something. Spending 20 days to craft an uncommon item, at 8 hours a day, means the creator has to have money coming in from other things. So what kind of markup is there on magic items?

This leads to a paradox with the base-level Healing potion. The PHB lists the sale price as 50 gp. But this is less than the creation cost. So are healing potions being sold at a loss? Or is the base healing potion less expensive to make? If so, what is the true creation cost, and what is the markup for the creator?

D&D 5E Potions of Healing (and other common magical items)

Roger

First Post

Dausuul

Legend

CrassPip

First Post

Riley37

First Post

Wolf118

Explorer

Ahrimon

Bourbon and Dice

Riley37

First Post

Wolf118

Explorer

Wolf118

Explorer

Wolf118

Explorer

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