Geas: the good, the bad, the funny

[Saeviomagy]

That is such a weak rules argument.
If you take this approach (sans common sense), adjudicating D&D can become very hard.

Geas is 3 levels higher of spell. Those 3 levels are because it doesn't have a save. To make it less powerful than a 3rd level spell based on text that is NOT there, is ludicrous.

Voadam's argument is rubbish when you look at the 3.5 rules.

However in the 3.0 rules, it seemed quite clear that you could ignore your quest if you were willing to take the consequences.

 

[Hypersmurf]

However in the 3.0 rules, it seemed quite clear that you could ignore your quest if you were willing to take the consequences.

Not at all. It's arguable, but it's certainly not clear.

On the "can't ignore" side - there's nothing in the Geas text to counter the "You must obey" text of Lesser Geas. "For each day you do not attempt" only comes into effect under the circumstances that someone can]/i] not attempt to follow the Geas... which, by the Lesser Geas text, is if they are prevented somehow.

Volition doesn't come into it.

-Hyp.

 

[Norfleet]

On the "can't ignore" side - there's nothing in the Geas text to counter the "You must obey" text of Lesser Geas. "For each day you do not attempt" only comes into effect under the circumstances that someone can]/i] not attempt to follow the Geas... which, by the Lesser Geas text, is if they are prevented somehow.

Volition doesn't come into it.

On the other hand, without volition, the subject can't attempt to NOT follow the instructions: If you Geas me and send me on a quest to fetch you a ham sandwich, and while I'm en-route to the nearest ham sandwich, I'm waylaid by bandits, tied up, and held for ransom, that doesn't mean I am now unable to *ATTEMPT* to fetch you that sandwich. It's just become very much more difficult, since I must now first escape, and somehow weedle a ham sandwich out of somebody to take back to you. But I can still be attempting to do it, and therefore attempting to fulfill the quest. The only thing that could possibly stop me from attempting, however futilely, to fetch you that sandwich, would be becoming dead, in which case ability score penalties stop being an issue.

The only thing I can think of would completely prevent a target from attempting to carry out the command would be a set of mutually contradictory Geases: You say I must fetch you a ham sandwich, whereas somebody else Geases me as well and says that I must NOT fetch you that sandwich. Therefore, I'd begin accumulating penalties, either for continuing to fetch your sandwich, or for not fetching your sandwich.

 

[Dark Dragon]

Geas was rarely used in my group, but when it happened it was mostly quite funny. One wizard used it back in old AD&D times to "convince" captured opponents to search three ioun stones (not the burnt out) for him.

The other wizard was the target of the halfling's jokes. We were part of a little army that was led by our cleric of tempus (he had a general's title). One day the wizard was sleeping to regain his spells. The halfling searched some ham and put it gently between the wizard's toes. Then she lured the wizard's guard dog (a quite stupid animal) into the tent where the wizard was sleeping. Of course, the dog began licking the ham (the animal was not so stupid to bite at it). The wizard woke up and became quite angry about the disturbance. But he finished his rest first, then searched the halfling and said to her: "I want you to become a good soldier so that you can fulfil your duties while serving in this army."
The wizard walked back to his tent smiling. The halfling became a very good soldier (sometimes she exaggerated), but it was funny anyway.

 

[roguerouge]

How's this for a geas: "Aid me in whatever way I require by means that provide maximum benefit to me without harming my allies or aiding BBEG or their allies in any way." (Which sets the duration at 1 day/level. Couldn't one of the later methods of aiding be: accept this spell?)

roguerouge

 

[The_Universe]

One of the less-mature players in an old campaign made standard practice of geasing annoying opponents to perform "fellatio"* on themselves, or occaisonally on the BBEG.

Immature as all Hell, but I'd be lying if I told you that I didn't fall off of my chair laughing the first time he did it.

*If you do not know what this is, I am NOT explaining. It's probably for the best.

 

[Voadam]

That is such a weak rules argument.
If you take this approach (sans common sense), adjudicating D&D can become very hard.

Geas is 3 levels higher of spell. Those 3 levels are because it doesn't have a save. To make it less powerful than a 3rd level spell based on text that is NOT there, is ludicrous.

I'm just pointing out the text of the Geas spell

Here it is again:

Instead of taking penalties to ability scores (as with lesser geas), the subject takes 3d6 points of damage each day it does not attempt to follow the geas/quest. Additionally, each day it must make a Fortitude saving throw or become sickened. These effects end 24 hours after the creature attempts to resume the geas/ quest.

Now then, saying the spell should not say "attempt" and should say "is prevented from" is a reasonable argument based on the level difference and the clear way lesser geas works i.e. "must follow".

I think geas is self contradictory and inconsistent with lesser geas as written.

However, that is how it is written and I have not seen errata for it yet.

House ruling a contradictory spell to be consistent and reasonable is fine, but saying as it is currently written it is obviously read to be compulsory and not effects for nonattempts seems mistaken.

 

[Voadam]

Voadam's argument is rubbish when you look at the 3.5 rules.

However in the 3.0 rules, it seemed quite clear that you could ignore your quest if you were willing to take the consequences.

Here is the 3.0 rules

It seems self contradictory as well, using "must" and then "attempts"

Geas/Quest
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Language-Dependent, Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 6, Clr 6, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One living creature
Duration: 1 day/level or until discharged (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
A geas places a magical command on a creature to carry out some service or to refrain from some action or course of activity, as desired by the character. The creature must be able to understand the character. While a geas cannot compel a creature to kill itself or perform acts that would result in certain death, it can cause almost any other course of activity. The geased creature must follow the given instructions until the geas is completed, no matter how long it takes. If the instructions involve some open-ended task that the recipient cannot complete through his own actions, the spell remains in effect for a maximum of 1 day per caster level. Note that a clever recipient can subvert some instructions.
If the subject is prevented from obeying the geas for a whole day, the subject takes 3d6 points of damage each day he does not attempt to follow the geas/quest. Additionally, each day he must make a Fortitude saving throw or sicken. A sickened creature moves at half his normal speed and suffers –4 penalties on both Strength and Dexterity. He heals damage at one-tenth his normal rate and cannot benefit from any magical healing effects. A sickened creature must make a Fortitude save each day or become crippled. Once crippled, the subject is effectively disabled (as if he had 0 hit points) and can’t choose to take strenuous actions. These effects end 1 day after the creature attempts to resume the geas/quest.
A geas (and all penalties) can be ended by limited wish, remove curse (only if the remove curse’s caster level is at least two higher than the character’s caster level), miracle, or wish. Dispel magic does not affect a geas.
Wizard and bards usually refer to this spell as geas, while clerics call the same spell quest.

 

[Voadam]

3.0 lesser geas

Lesser Geas
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Language-Dependent, Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One living creature of up to 7 HD
Duration: 1 day/level or until discharged (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
A lesser geas places a magical command on a creature to carry out some service or to refrain from some action or course of activity, as desired by the character. The creature must have 7 or fewer HD and be able to understand the character. While a geas cannot compel a creature to kill itself or perform acts that would result in certain death, it can cause almost any other course of activity. The geased creature must follow the given instructions until the geas is completed, no matter how long it takes. If the instructions involve some open-ended task that the recipient cannot complete through his own actions (such as "Wait here" or "Defend this area against attack"), the spell remains in effect for a maximum of 1 day per caster level. Note that a clever recipient can subvert some instructions. For example, if the character orders the recipient to protect the character from all harm, it might place the character in a nice, safe dungeon for the duration of the spell.
If the subject is prevented from obeying the lesser geas for a whole day, he suffers a –2 penalty on each ability score. Each day, another –2 penalty accumulates, up to a total of –8. Abilities are not reduced below 1. The ability penalties end 1 day after the character resumes obeying the lesser geas.
A lesser geas (and all ability penalties) can be ended by break enchantment, limited wish, remove curse, miracle, or wish. Dispel magic does not affect a lesser geas.

 

[Norfleet]

One of the less-mature players in an old campaign made standard practice of geasing annoying opponents to perform "fellatio"* on themselves, or occaisonally on the BBEG.

Is that even physically possible? What happens if the geased instructions are not physically doable?