Geas: the good, the bad, the funny

[fido_usernameinuse]

How's this for a geas: "Aid me in whatever way I require by means that provide maximum benefit to me without harming my allies or aiding BBEG or their allies in any way." (Which sets the duration at 1 day/level. Couldn't one of the later methods of aiding be: accept this spell?)

roguerouge

Ahh a challenge...

The flawed word here is "require". What you require is subjective, and thus subject to interpretation.

A victim of this geas would thus have to accompany the caster until such time that he deems his interference is required.

When this happens the victim is released from his service (since the wording of the geas doesn't specify that the victim should continue to assist him after he has given his aid.).

The caster specifically requesting aid at a given time would not necessarily lead to him receiving any (at that time) because the victim might think the caster could manage on his own.

OT:
Another potentially difficult word is maximum, or rather maximum benefit, because (not knowing the future) there is no way to know what would benefit the caster the most.


Conclusion:
Geas in it's present state sucks badly, houserules is required (or a DM's judging). I find that defining each geas specifically opens for too much contention(?) and rules-lawyering.

 

[TheBrassDuke]

I know it's severe thread necromancy, but I have an answer, and it comes from the top.

While Lesser Geas implies that you must obey your given instructions, Geas/Quest has that little bit saying "attempt". Do you know why?

I do.

Okay, so you've been prevented from continuing on with your Geas; still with me on this? You've been halted. You have begun taking damage and are slowly withering away. You are still under Geas, but are being penalized for not being able to continue on. This brings in your choice. You're going to die eventually, but since you have been forced to stop your quest and took damage, you are slightly free from the compulsion. You're still obligated to press on, but you really don't have to do it on their terms anymore--so long as you're willing to die sooner. You've already taken damage, what's a little more? Originally, no. You have to follow the Geas. But not after you've taken damage. You should so that you don't die, and eventually you'll have to, but you're not being forced to live anymore.

 

[Celebrim]

So, I'm on the side of the target can choose not to cooperate. If they do so, they take the penalty. Thus, you can't really make effective use of this as a combat spell.

Additionally, as I would rule on it, the geas must be worded as a goal to strive to accomplish, not as a suggestion of what to do.

So a geas that said, "Cooperate with me to try to rescue the princess", would fail on two grounds. First, that's a suggestion not a quest, and secondly as soon as the target cooperated even once the goal of the quest would be completed. So for example, if the target said, "She's being held in the topmost tower", he's now completed the quest because the explicit goal here is only to "cooperate with me", which is fulfilled as soon as he does it. On the other hand, "Rescue the princess" would be a legitimate quest for the target of a geas, which would only be fulfilled when the princess was rescued (no wiggling around it), but certainly would not preclude the target killing the caster and then taking the princess back to her father for the reward himself rather than seeing the PC's claim the reward.

A much better quest to achieve the desired result would be, "Serve me as a slave for one year." However, since I'm on the side of "you may choose not to cooperate if you are willing to bear the consequences", again this is not as useful as the player may want it to be. One thing geas certainly is not is Dominate Person with no saving throw.

Likewise, to cite the vulgar example, you could geas a minion with the quest, "'Perform fellatio on your master'", and he would be under the geas to do so until he succeeded, but you couldn't with such a quest compel a minion via a geas to chase his master around the battlefield rather than for example buying candies and flowers and offering candlight dinners or trying to win his master's favor by killing those annoying heroes.

Geas as I read it is therefore a subtle spell used to avenge yourself on someone you don't believe can hurt you, to further blackmail someone, or to trick a person into obeying you by giving him a task which seems to them less onerous in its consequences than bearing the consequences of resisting your will.

 

[Celebrim]

How's this for a geas: "Aid me in whatever way I require by means that provide maximum benefit to me without harming my allies or aiding BBEG or their allies in any way."

NPC: "What to you require, my master"
PC: "Tell me where the princess is?"
NPC: "She's at the top of the tallest tower." *ping* <QUEST CONDITIONS COMPLETED!>