Warlock Critical Hellish Rebuke and curse..

[Oompa]

So this came up last night,

Our party warlock rolled an natural 20 on his die and hit, so he got an critical, he did that with his Hellish Rebuke at will power, so he did automatic 10 damage (max d6 and +4 con).

Now the target attacked the warlock before the end of the lock's turn so the enemy gets an additional 1d6 + con damage (from the hellish rebuke power), is that one also maxed??

And the lock cursed the attacker, so if the attacker hits the lock, and the attacker gets the hellish rebuke damage, does the extra curse damage kick in then?

--Oompa

 

[DracoSuave]

So this came up last night,

Our party warlock rolled an natural 20 on his die and hit, so he got an critical, he did that with his Hellish Rebuke at will power, so he did automatic 10 damage (max d6 and +4 con).

Now the target attacked the warlock before the end of the lock's turn so the enemy gets an additional 1d6 + con damage (from the hellish rebuke power), is that one also maxed??

And the lock cursed the attacker, so if the attacker hits the lock, and the attacker gets the hellish rebuke damage, does the extra curse damage kick in then?

--Oompa

Firstly, he should also have done automatic max damage with his curse on that, for 16 damage. But that aside....

The critical hit does not affect the additional damage from the 'lock taking damage, because that damage is not immediate damage from a successful attack, but damage that is applied as the result of a set condition.

Now, as for the question on whether the curse can affect that extra damage?

Once per turn as a minor action, you can place a
Warlock’s Curse on the enemy nearest to you that
you can see. A cursed enemy is more vulnerable to
your attacks. If you damage a cursed enemy, you deal
extra damage. You decide whether to apply the extra
damage after making the damage roll. You can deal
this extra damage once per round.

You can use the curse's extra damage on that hellish rebuke trigger -if- you've not used it already this round. So, if you chose not to use it on the original blast of hellish rebuke, you can use it on the secondary trigger.

That said, if you crit a monster, and your intent is to damage it moar... then saving your curse damage for later damage over the max'd critical hit is probably fail. You got the opportunity to max its damage, USE the opportunity. (There are times you'd save it, but they are narrow and rare)

 

[King-Panda]

Without the books in front of me, I'm not going to specifically answer your question. I've read in this forum that any and all damage dealt on a critical that isn't gained from the crit is maximized, and that damage dealt because of the a critical is not.

So a +1 Longsword with 16 Str (1d8 + 3 Str + 1 Enh, +1d6 on a crit) deals 12 + 1d6 damage.

 

[DracoSuave]

Without the books in front of me, I'm not going to specifically answer your question. I've read in this forum that any and all damage dealt on a critical that isn't gained from the crit is maximized, and that damage dealt because of the a critical is not.

So a +1 Longsword with 16 Str (1d8 + 3 Str + 1 Enh, +1d6 on a crit) deals 12 + 1d6 damage.

Neither of which applies to this particular situation.

 

[Oompa]

Firstly, he should also have done automatic max damage with his curse on that, for 16 damage. But that aside....

The critical hit does not affect the additional damage from the 'lock taking damage, because that damage is not immediate damage from a successful attack, but damage that is applied as the result of a set condition.

Now, as for the question on whether the curse can affect that extra damage?

Once per turn as a minor action, you can place a
Warlock’s Curse on the enemy nearest to you that
you can see. A cursed enemy is more vulnerable to
your attacks. If you damage a cursed enemy, you deal
extra damage. You decide whether to apply the extra
damage after making the damage roll. You can deal
this extra damage once per round.

You can use the curse's extra damage on that hellish rebuke trigger -if- you've not used it already this round. So, if you chose not to use it on the original blast of hellish rebuke, you can use it on the secondary trigger.

That said, if you crit a monster, and your intent is to damage it moar... then saving your curse damage for later damage over the max'd critical hit is probably fail. You got the opportunity to max its damage, USE the opportunity. (There are times you'd save it, but they are narrow and rare)

Thanks, this clarify's alot

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

DracoSuave, is there a rule about damage from a power that critically hits not being maximized just because the trigger condition occurs later? I'm not asking to argue with you, but to actually see if there was a rule I missed on it. As far as I can tell the crit would apply to both sets of damage. The same with damage from powers like Dire Radiance, or Blood Pulse.

I do agree that I would have applied the curse damage on the intial hit rather then hope I take damage for the trigger.

Also I don't want Oompa to walk away with incorrect information if I happen to be right.

 

[Aservan]

I play a infernal warlock so here is how I do it. On the crit you get to max your curse die. So 6 from that. You get the 6 from the d6 of the power + your con modifier so around 15-17 damage total.

You get to max the curse damage as it is not a result of the crit (like a magic rod would give you). You do not get to max the secondary damage as it was not a direct result of the attack roll. It is a mini status effect. The result of which damages your target.

Like Dracosuave was saying it would be a mistake to save your one curse damage for later. You don't know what you would roll (the crit gets you the 6 for free) and more importantly you don't know that you will take damage before you go again. Always take the curse damage when you can unless you know for certain that you will get another chance to use it.

Even if you are making two attacks from an action point use the curse on the first hit for you might not get another and the damage will almost certainly be the same either way (a crit on the second attack would be the exception but if you want to gamble on a 1 in 20 shot you are luckier/braver/stupider then me).