Martial Controller: Auxiliary (Version 0.11) -Updated Preview Character (Aug. 9th)

[generalhenry]

Similarly, Defenders aren't exactly Tanks and I could see a Ranged Defender, but it would be insane to play as the role really discourages it. It would be possible to make, but deeply counter-intuitive.

The main reason I don't see it as viable is because OAs are a key part of what makes a defender.

Not that a defender can't have ranged attacks (paladins have plenty), but that defenders must have a strong basic melee attack.

The other key reason is that the monsters will always engage the defender in melee.


The inverse is why I don't see melee controllers working. Controllers shouldn't risk monsters engaging them in melee. Strikers get away with it through mobility, the ability to get out of harm's way. But without toughness or mobility you really need to stay out of the reach of Ogres.


Anywho... looking like the class is coming alone nicely. It's certainly a challenge, the martial power source does not flow nicely into a controller, but unlike ranged defenders or melee controllers I don't think there are any fundamental reasons it can not work. It's just hard mode class creation.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Well, I think what you should really aim for in a Martial Controller is something like the Sappers in Erickson's Malazan series, but until they release alchemy rules that's just a dream.

 

[jaldaen]

Well, I think what you should really aim for in a Martial Controller is something like the Sappers in Erickson's Malazan series, but until they release alchemy rules that's just a dream.

Yeah, once we have some alchemy rules to work with I'll probably do a short "add-on" pack for an alchemy-based Auxiliary

 

[jaldaen]

Well I just posted the 1st through 30th level preview character of the Auxiliary class. I hope you all enjoy it as much as I did designing it

Now that all 30 levels are complete (along with feats, magical weapons, etc.)I'm going to take a couple days off and set the class aside so I can come back to it with some fresh eyes. I am especially interested in rearranging the 1-30 class powers so there is a more natural progression in the powers (especially when it comes to replacing old powers with new ones). I think it is important that a character's powers feel like they have evolved rather than transmutated.

For example, at 13th level when you replace your 1st level encounter powers it would be nice if there were a few "upgrade" type powers which are based on the 1st level encounter powers, but only slightly better.

What are other people's thoughts on powers? Should they have an "evolving" or "transmuting" feel? Or a mixture of both?

Thanks again for all your comments

 

[Xeviat]

Powers should definately evolve. I would hate to have been using the same Encounter power from 1st level and then "upgrade it" to 13th level and find that one of its applications has been removed. For instance, moving from slow to immobilize, or from daze to stun is fine; these do the same thing and more, so such a change would be welcomed. But moving from immobilize to slow, or simply removing an added effect would change how a character functions. The option to trade out powers makes it so characters "can" have their functions change if they want to, but the option to just get better should exist.

I sent an Email requesting the NDA as well. I would love to help with this as I started thinking on my own "Archer" class; I don't care about selling the class, so I'd much rather use yours.

I haven't noticed if anyone else has mentioned this so far. I feel you've given a bit too many bonus feats at 1st level for this class. Most of the PHB classes get 3 to 4 abilities at first level, aside from their powers. The wizard gets Arcane Implement Mastery, Cantrips, Ritual Casting, and the Spellbook Ability (extra dailies and utilities, as well as free rituals). You've given the Auxiliary Control Zones, Auxiliary's Strategy, Auxiliary Weapon Talent (albet not a hugely strong ability), Immediate Reflexes, and 3 bonus feats.

I just wanted to point out that this seems to be a bit much to me. But that's at first glance without any playtesting.

 

[keterys]

This is pretty interesting - I have trouble not thinking of Space Marines, but it's cool to have the Overwatch and suppressive fire concepts in.

On the topic of melee martial controller, I had considered making one that would specialize in polearms or flails (including the spiked chain) as its two builds. It would be less effective at AoE than a wizard (at least in terms of large AoE), but would be tougher and be very effective at controlling a selective (enemies only) small area (with forced movement, knockdown, stuns, etc). Man, I wish I had infinite time to work on stuff.

 

[jaldaen]

Powers should definately evolve. I would hate to have been using the same Encounter power from 1st level and then "upgrade it" to 13th level and find that one of its applications has been removed... The option to trade out powers makes it so characters "can" have their functions change if they want to, but the option to just get better should exist.

Thanks for the comments... this is what I thought and right now the base class will need a bit of renovation to get a naturally flowing series of powers from heroic to paragon to epic levels.

I sent an Email requesting the NDA as well. I would love to help with this as I started thinking on my own "Archer" class; I don't care about selling the class, so I'd much rather use yours.

I've sent an NDA over to you

I haven't noticed if anyone else has mentioned this so far. I feel you've given a bit too many bonus feats at 1st level for this class. Most of the PHB classes get 3 to 4 abilities at first level, aside from their powers. The wizard gets Arcane Implement Mastery, Cantrips, Ritual Casting, and the Spellbook Ability (extra dailies and utilities, as well as free rituals). You've given the Auxiliary Control Zones, Auxiliary's Strategy, Auxiliary Weapon Talent (albet not a hugely strong ability), Immediate Reflexes, and 3 bonus feats.

Yeah this is one area I'm still balancing. I have an effective feats comparison of all the classes, which seems to work pretty well with all of the classes having essentially the same number of virtual feats (including the Auxiliary). The main thing with controllers is that they have a lot more "virtual feats" invested in their class features than other classes due to lagging behind in the hp/healing surge departments. The skirmisher makes up some of this ground with its extra trained skill and proficiencies, but it has about 2 more effective feats in class features than other classes (other than the Wizard who rules on class features).

I just wanted to point out that this seems to be a bit much to me. But that's at first glance without any playtesting.

That's one of the reasons why I'm looking for playtesters to see how much all the class features are actually worth in "virtual feats." If it turns out that a class feature is too much I'll be toning it down:

For example, I'm going to tone down the immediate reflexes ability from +1 IA/round to +1 IA/encounter because the former was just too powerful. The latter might be too little, but only a bit of playtesting will tell me how weak or dead on it is in the overall scheme of things.

 

[jaldaen]

This is pretty interesting - I have trouble not thinking of Space Marines, but it's cool to have the Overwatch and suppressive fire concepts in.

Thanks... I think

Anyway, I really wanted a class that emphasized quanity of attacks over quality, with short quick releases rather than long well-aimed ones (yes, one of the paragon paths is all about accuracy, but that's why its a paragon path and not a class feature).

On the topic of melee martial controller, I had considered making one that would specialize in polearms or flails (including the spiked chain) as its two builds. It would be less effective at AoE than a wizard (at least in terms of large AoE), but would be tougher and be very effective at controlling a selective (enemies only) small area (with forced movement, knockdown, stuns, etc). Man, I wish I had infinite time to work on stuff.

Not a bad idea... I think a melee martial controller class with "threatening reach" would be the best approach, but as you said it really has a small AoE and would be most effective as a "one enemy shut down" machine. I also think it would be more difficult to design paragon and epic level powers for the class that would really compete with the wizard, while not stepping out of the controller role (although the secondary role could be defender and I could see that going over well with such a class).

 

[jaldaen]

Okay so one of the things I'm thinking of dropping is the whole Immediate Action angle for the class. I still think it would be nice to have some Immediate Action powers for the Auxiliary class, but I think the class as written interfers too much with the cycle of play and could result in spotlight hogging.

Now one thing I wouldn't mind doing is making the control zones something you can activate with either a Move Action or an Immediate Action (Interrupt or Reaction?). This would free up the Auxiliary's Move Action a lot more and allow the class to be more mobile and still use a control zone.

Any comments or suggestions on this issue (or any other you have with the class) are most welcome?

Thanks

 

[jaldaen]

So now that I've come back to the class with a fresh pair of eyes... I'll be changing a lot of class features and powers around to create a more affective and effective overall class. I am especially axing the immediate action angle. It was interesting, however I think it's too jarring to the flow of combat and economy of actions. I have also axed the strategies. In their place I have created a more robust control zone mechanic. I have also reinstated the Quick Release concept of trading weapon proficiency for targeting non-AC and the Quick Draw feat.

I think these changes (and the resultant changes to the powers) will make this class an even more effective controller without some of the more convoluted ideas I had in the first few iterations.

I should have a new version up in a week or so and look forward to your comments