Dragon 365 - Artificer

[ProfessorCirno]

I'll post more later - maybe - but for now, I'll just say how infinitely amused I am that all these powers involve the artificer mixing up things or throwing out items...and that you'll never need to actually have them in your inventory at any time


Edit:
Ok then, my thoughts. All around, I think it's pretty solid, but it breaks my heart to see it shackled to the Powers system. This class seems most of all to cry out for something else. I'd have much preferred having the Artificer actually make the items while traveling or whatnot and then use them during combat, with some of the abilities - such as the ones that effect your missile weapon - staying as actual spells/powers. One of my friends labeled it as potentially a mix of Indiana Jones and Macguyver, which fits Eberron and how artificers are supposed to work perfectly. All and all, this is probably my favorite class shown so far - and the one that makes me sigh in frustration at 4e the most. I can only hope the "half finished" bit will get Wizards to lay off on the Powers and give us some crafted item goodness. A faint, hopeless hope, perhaps, but one nonetheless.

 

[Jindy]

I read through it quickly, but it looked pretty good to me. I'd be curious to see how it works in game.

I'd have much preferred having the Artificer actually make the items while traveling or whatnot and then use them during combat, with some of the abilities - such as the ones that effect your missile weapon - staying as actual spells/powers.

Maybe I'm completely off my rocker... but I thought the rules just set out the mechanics of what the artificer does. Leaving the fluff up to the player. What stops an artificer player from saying he spends down time tinkering? Or that 5 minutes between encounters adjusting the items used during the fight? Isn't that where the role playing comes in? Do we need rules to tell us to role play? And since the Artificer can take mundane items and tinker with them... there's really no shortage of tools available (all that mundane equipment on monsters that can't be sold suddenly has a purpose).

 

[ProfessorCirno]

I read through it quickly, but it looked pretty good to me. I'd be curious to see how it works in game.



Maybe I'm completely off my rocker... but I thought the rules just set out the mechanics of what the artificer does. Leaving the fluff up to the player. What stops an artificer player from saying he spends down time tinkering? Or that 5 minutes between encounters adjusting the items used during the fight? Isn't that where the role playing comes in? Do we need rules to tell us to role play? And since the Artificer can take mundane items and tinker with them... there's really no shortage of tools available (all that mundane equipment on monsters that can't be sold suddenly has a purpose).

Because irregardless of how much he tinkers on it, he can only use it once per encounter. Or once per day. Or because irregardless of how many he MAKES, he can only use one of them per day or one of them per encounter.

The Artificer in some ways puts me in mind of the Tinkerer from the WoW rpg (Yes, yes, I KNOW, I KNOW, stay with me). It would often invent and create DOZENS of different gadgets, each useful in different occasions, and would switch between them while fighting or exploring. That mix I mentioned earlier of Indiana Jones and Macguyver. But this Artificer, because of the power system, is just a variant wizard. There's nothing in it that suggests it actually making items.

Again, my complaint isn't with the class. I LIKE the class. My complaint is with the Powers system.

 

[doctorhook]

Okay team, don't forget, we have a chance to help with this! If you see something that looks odd or wonky, write out a quick note to dndinsider@wizards.com with the subject line "Artificer Playtest Feedback". It won't take any longer than posting the same thing here, so do it.

I already sent one, regarding Cannith Goggles, one of the magic items at the end. I haven't actually played with this item yet, but using the standard litmus test of, "If you'd never use it, it's probably underpowered," I don't believe I'd ever expend a valuable encounter or daily power for darkvision, even to gain it until the end of my next extended rest; torches are cheap, even at 1st level, and every wizard can cast light all day, every day, making darkvision seem kinda weak in my mind. Instead I suggested expending a healing surge to activate the item.

It's possible I'm totally wrong in my assessment, though I prefer to think I've done my part to help by submitting honest feedback. There's always lots of great ideas on these boards, so please don't forget to share them with the people who can use them![/sanctimoniousness]

 

[Ximenes088]

Again, my complaint isn't with the class. I LIKE the class. My complaint is with the Powers system.

By now, I'm sure you've repeatedly and exhaustively heard the reasons why 4e went with the Powers system it did. That being the case, I'm sure you understand that the designers wanted to ensure that PCs entering an encounter would always be within certain degrees of capacity, and would not be able to buff/prepare themselves grossly above their baseline capacity. Allowing an artificer to spend time out of combat in order to gain significant power in combat is directly contrary to this plan.

But if you want the Artificer to be able to do that, how would you recommend avoiding the problem that the Powers system tries to solve in the first place? How would you balance it so an Artificer could not simply spend a week at home brewing grenades and then spam Daily-sized attacks all through the adventure?

 

[ProfessorCirno]

By now, I'm sure you've repeatedly and exhaustively heard the reasons why 4e went with the Powers system it did. That being the case, I'm sure you understand that the designers wanted to ensure that PCs entering an encounter would always be within certain degrees of capacity, and would not be able to buff/prepare themselves grossly above their baseline capacity. Allowing an artificer to spend time out of combat in order to gain significant power in combat is directly contrary to this plan.

But if you want the Artificer to be able to do that, how would you recommend avoiding the problem that the Powers system tries to solve in the first place? How would you balance it so an Artificer could not simply spend a week at home brewing grenades and then spam Daily-sized attacks all through the adventure?

I'd argue that it's either a non-existing problem, or one that still hasn't been fixed. The complaint with Vancian was that wizards could blast everything in one combat then just rest to do it again and again. That's still there. Artificers under the Powers system already can spam Daily-sized attacks all through the adventure, just like every other class can; all they do is rest between fights. Which is, I should add, the exact same thing they'd have to do if they actually crafted and used the devices. Honestly, balance wise, there'd be little to no change there.

 

[Rouens]

I was under the impression that you would use a crossbow or sling to launch the artifice.

My opinion is that they switched a line with the other encounter power "Spike Wire" that makes more sense.

 

[Khaalis]

In any case, it seems strange that they get Ritual Casting for free, but they do not explictly gain Enchant Item and Disenchant Item automatically.

This is because they gain Make Whole (a 1st level ritual). Enchant Magic Item is a4th level ritual and Disenchant Magic Item is a 6th level ritual. You don't give out free higher level abilities/powers for free at 1st level.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I always pictured an artificer as using pistol due to the vaguely technomantic feel of the class. And so many of the powers of this new artificer rely on ranged weapons. Using only the stuff in the PHB you'd probably want to get proficient in bows right away. Since they're mostly better weapons than crossbows. Might make an alright conversion for my gunmage character in 4e, but I'm sure if there ever was an Iron Kingdoms 4e, a gunmage would be an arcane striker...

Anyways artificers as they were in Eberron, generally always struck me as the blastificer. I sort of want the other build of artificer to be more charisma-based. So maybe in a few ways we can go with the concept of (evil) overlord with an artificer. In some cases I'm having a bit of a visualization problem picturing an artificer flinging components and things they put together with their implements. I guess a rod could just suck up a prepared artifice and then spit it out.

Another thing that concerns me is what sort of support will this class (or even the Swordmage for that matter) get from a sourcebook like Arcane Power? Since it seems the Eberron books are coming out after this.

 

[Miar]

I already sent one, regarding Cannith Goggles, one of the magic items at the end. I haven't actually played with this item yet, but using the standard litmus test of, "If you'd never use it, it's probably underpowered," I don't believe I'd ever expend a valuable encounter or daily power for darkvision, even to gain it until the end of my next extended rest; torches are cheap, even at 1st level, and every wizard can cast light all day, every day, making darkvision seem kinda weak in my mind. Instead I suggested expending a healing surge to activate the item.

[/sanctimoniousness]

If I was DMing I might houserule these to be rechargeable with the Artificer's Arcane Replenishment.