So THAT's why Regdar gets no love...

[roguerouge]

Most hispanics I know who play D&D where thrilled by Alhandra and Kerwyn, they didn't see them as being europeans, but as Hispanics. You say you want racial diversity in the art, but then say it isn't diverse enough, because the character still appears to of european descent. All true hispanics are of european descent, those who are not, are not hispanic, but from Native american stock instead. And there are a lot more Hispanics who play D&D then Mayans by the way.

I am a bad person. I never even considered that prospect for Kerwyn and Alhandra. Good show, person with vaguely naughty screen name!

 

[beepeearr]

Human Rogue Iconic

Not Naughty, just my initials sounded out, B bee, P pee, R arr.

 

[InVinoVeritas]

That's great, but, you know, most Hispanic people I've ever met or seen on TV were a lot browner-skinned than the could-easily-pass-for-Spanish-or-Italian iconics. So, I will definitely concede that you can read Alhandra and Kerwyn as Hispanic, but you can also read them as just European, and I don't think the ambiguity is really a good sign.

Hell, we're arguing about how to interpret the illustrations - how could it not be better to have unambiguously non-Caucasian characters in the artwork? If Hennet in the Player's Handbook looked like the novel cover, or the sketch you posted there, instead of the whitewashed version actually printed, I think everyone would be a lot happier.

Ember is unambiguous: no-one argues about her ethnicity. I'm just saying I'd like to have seen these arguably Asian and Hispanic iconic characters painted as obviously Asian or Hispanic. That's all.

I greatly prefer the ambiguous look, myself. After all, this is a fantasy world. If I recognize someone as being distinctly from one real-world culture or another, it kind of breaks my suspension of disbelief.

By the way, the Pathfinder iconics have names and backstories? I had no idea. Where could I find them? I've been searching the Paizo site...

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

And by the way neither Italians or Spanish started off with dark hair and darker complexion, it wasn't until after the Moors (arabic) invaded southern Europe and occupied and interbred with the natives that they took on those features. Before that they were pale haired and mostly fair skinned. And hispanics by the way are nothing more then Native American (be it meso, or south american) mixed with european (ie spanish) stock in the first place. .

Interestingly enough, in the Scots and Welsh Celts, there's a long history of "black Celts", folk with a very swarthy complexion, compared to the normal very pale Celtic skin.
Alas that's been taken up by some folks claiming black African's ruled a mythic country here...oh boy ... Facts are more likey to be Phoencian and Greek traders and thier slaves as the root of that difference.

Likewise, the Anui of Japan are another ethnic oddity.

Races in fantasy worlds could have all kinds of natural or magical variations and adaptations.
-BLue-tinged humans who have copper for blood (or green if you like Vulcans )
-Smooth skin, they don't sweat (useful adaptation for Athas perhaps).
And so on. Colour is just one of the many variables.

Also, having race being an issue is logical. Not necessarily in the xenophobic ways of our world, but in taboos and abilities, for example:
the Derial people have unusually large blue irises, and are the only folk who have the ability to be sorcerors.
or, by Imperial proscription, only the people of the island of Valmer maybe priests of the fire god, for their skin is black and have hair like copper, which pleases the god (well, pleases the Imperial culture's philosophy, in reality).

er, derail off

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I greatly prefer the ambiguous look, myself. After all, this is a fantasy world. If I recognize someone as being distinctly from one real-world culture or another, it kind of breaks my suspension of disbelief.

I didn't say anything about a real-world culture. Ember is an African-looking woman wearing Chinese-inspired clothing. There's no real-world culture there, any more than there would be if you saw a Vietnamese-looking man wearing European-style boiled leather armour.

 

[roguerouge]

I greatly prefer the ambiguous look, myself. After all, this is a fantasy world. If I recognize someone as being distinctly from one real-world culture or another, it kind of breaks my suspension of disbelief.

By the way, the Pathfinder iconics have names and backstories? I had no idea. Where could I find them? I've been searching the Paizo site...

Seelah's here, in the blog, about halfway down under "Meet the Iconics," which is an ongoing blog feature: http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/2007/december

 

[Staffan]

When all is said and done, the lack of "iconic" characters is the greatest 4e mystery to me.

Given how helpful they are to art orders and branding and how easy it is to license and merchandise their images, their absence is an enigma.

Someone must have put their foot down on this matter, and that person made the wrong call.

I'm pretty sure I saw someone in charge (can't recall who or where) say that it was at least partially listening to the artists, who said they were getting sick of drawing Mialee, Tordek, and Lidda.

 

[Set]

I'm pretty sure I saw someone in charge (can't recall who or where) say that it was at least partially listening to the artists, who said they were getting sick of drawing Mialee, Tordek, and Lidda.

And from my side of the page, I'm pretty sick of seeing Mialee and Lidda in particular, especially since Naull and Kerwyn are much cooler looking. (I liked the elven druid, 'though, so I'm not a complete speciest...)

 

[Pinnacle]

He doesn't look Asian in the Player's Handbook, for whatever reason. Maybe that's why they had his face redrawn for the novel cover! But the fact remains.

This is the first time I've ever seen that cover, and I always knew he was Asian. *Shrugs*
(Except for one picture in Complete Mage, I believe, in which he is white with blond hair and blue eyes--took me a while to realize it was even supposed to be him! And that picture is so good except for that, too...)
If you look closely at the picture in the PHB, though, you might see the reason for the weird coloring. It's an attempt to make it look like the glowing green energy in his hand is lighting up his face (and shoulder).

And from my side of the page, I'm pretty sick of seeing Mialee and Lidda in particular, especially since Naull and Kerwyn are much cooler looking. (I liked the elven druid, 'though, so I'm not a complete speciest...)

She's only half-elf though.

 

[wayne62682]

Samus wore a bikini in her first game, take that as you will.

True, but the original manual referred to Samus Aran as "he", and it was only as a reward for completing the game quickly (or, for us cheaters, using the JUSTIN BAILEY password) that you found out the truth.

This clearly means they should have had a white "male" bishonen as the main character (or keep "him" helmed at all times), and reveal later on that "he" was really a woman.