Why are scrying rituals so dang short?

[Stalker0]

I like rituals, and my 4e wizard is doing his best to make use of them (only a few so far though, I'm 2nd level).

But as I look farther along in the book, the scrying rituals flat out shocked me. Take the Observe Creature ritual. Its 24th level, costs me 21 thousand gold (that's thousand with a T) to cast and a whole hour of my time.

And what do I get for my trouble.....5 rounds (maybe...if I roll high!) of scrying.

I'm sorry, but I've taken longer to wash my hands than 5 rounds. And further, the target has a chance to see my scrying sensor, and destroy it immediately.


I'm all for a ritual being expensive, I'm all for it taking a long to cast, and I'm all for it being very specific as far as describing my target. But once I get past all of that, I expect some bang for my buck, and 5 rounds is not it.

I'm thinking about multiplying those durations by 10, so that I could get a 5 minute duration. That's still pretty short (especially considering the person can still try and detect the sensor) but at least its something.


What do you guys think?

 

[Psychic Robot]

I'd say just turn each round into a minute. Which you suggested.

On the other hand, you could always do something like the following (I don't have the chart in front of me, so you'll have to excuse my guess numbers):

1-10: 1 minute.
11-20: 5 minutes.
21-30: 15 minutes.
31-40: 30 minutes.
41+: 45 minutes.

Honestly, I'd prefer those durations to be larger, but 4e really, really, really hates diviners. So I'm trying to work within the paradigm.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Yeah makes sense to me. If all combats are expected to be about 5 minutes long irrespective of the number of rounds your house rule sounds fine. I hadn' read that far ahead on rituals but that is pretty poor value for money!
You could bribe a cohort or hire a spy for a month or so with that sort of cash

 

[Falling Icicle]

I agree, the short durations are ridiculous, especially considering the time and cost involved in the casting. I'd change the duration from rounds to hours.

 

[DracoSuave]

I agree, the short durations are ridiculous, especially considering the time and cost involved in the casting. I'd change the duration from rounds to hours.

It's to prevent the use of the rituals to constantly spy on an adversary. Which, if you must notice, is good for PCs cause then they can plan against the BBEG without having all their plans disrupted.

 

[Psychic Robot]

It's to prevent the use of the rituals to constantly spy on an adversary. Which, if you must notice, is good for PCs cause then they can plan against the BBEG without having all their plans disrupted.

Five rounds is a little too far in one direction, methinks.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

Just to put things in proper perspective, the market cost of the ritual is 105,000gp, 21,000gp in components and a 10,000gp focus. Now beyond the market cost, while 31 grand might seem like a lot, 10 grand is simply invested in the form of the focus so the value is never really spent, and 21 grand is the equivalent to a 14th level item. Thats a pittance to a 24th level character. The lowest treasure parcel for a 24th level character is 600pp. So we are definitely not talking about a very expensive ritual. If you are going to raise the duration you should probably increase the cost.

 

[small pumpkin man]

It's to prevent the use of the rituals to constantly spy on an adversary. Which, if you must notice, is good for PCs cause then they can plan against the BBEG without having all their plans disrupted.

This would be a better argument if Forbiddance wasn't four levels lower and less than a quarter of the cost.

I could be spoilt from 3.x, but 20/30 thousand and an hour of prep for maybe 30 seconds of viewtime feels like it's pushing it.

 

[Falling Icicle]

It's to prevent the use of the rituals to constantly spy on an adversary. Which, if you must notice, is good for PCs cause then they can plan against the BBEG without having all their plans disrupted.

That's what the Forbiddance ritual is for.

 

[Ahglock]

Just to put things in proper perspective, the market cost of the ritual is 105,000gp, 21,000gp in components and a 10,000gp focus. Now beyond the market cost, while 31 grand might seem like a lot, 10 grand is simply invested in the form of the focus so the value is never really spent, and 21 grand is the equivalent to a 14th level item. Thats a pittance to a 24th level character. The lowest treasure parcel for a 24th level character is 600pp. So we are definitely not talking about a very expensive ritual. If you are going to raise the duration you should probably increase the cost.

I'm not sure I consider 2% of my total monetary take for the entire level 24 a pittance. At 30 seconds how many times would you have to cast this to get even half decent information, 20 times, 50 times. Heck I'll be nice and say 10 times, or 20% of your partys total take for level 24. So really to get a shot at decent information, not even guaranteed since even after 10 times you can get 10 times of him in the bathroom is it worth 20% of the party haul.

I suspect the party will be wanting to put some of that money into expanding there miscellaneous magic times, rounding out other slots, and a variety of other functions. How much money are they going to spend on the hope they time everything right, and the person isn't protected from scrying.