[Magic] Snakes, Bugs & Assassins

[el-remmen]

Apocalypse, if I'm not mistaken. A great revival for opposing colours getting along all cosy like (well, in the one deck.) Er, was that 'past 7th edition'? I wouldn't know. . . Probably because I hated 7th edition, a fair bit. 6th wasn't much better, mind you.

Well, I stopped collecting before 6th edition came out (like I said, Visions was the last cards I bought new) - I just am willing to look at stuff short of 8th ed when the look changed.

 

[Arkhandus]

"Poisonous 1" doesn't stack, as far as I know. So 4 Virulent Slivers won't make every sliver deal 4 poison counters; each sliver would just deal 1 poison counter. Just like 4 sources of First Strike wouldn't cause the creature to deal damage 4 times during the first strike damage phase.

 

[Aus_Snow]

"Poisonous 1" doesn't stack, as far as I know. So 4 Virulent Slivers won't make every sliver deal 4 poison counters; each sliver would just deal 1 poison counter. Just like 4 sources of First Strike wouldn't cause the creature to deal damage 4 times during the first strike damage phase.

Apparently, it does stack.

I always had a strong dislike of slivers, since the Rath cycle. The general principle was to kill off the player using them, pronto. These new ones seem (of course) more b0rken still. Wonderful.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Apparently, it does stack.

Yeah, it stacks, because stuff like that triggers separately - with four of them in play, they basically read "Poisonous 1, Poisonous 1, Poisonous 1, Poisonous 1".

First Strike would also stack, it would "read" "First Strike, First Strike, First Strike, First Strike" - but since first strike just says you deal damage during the first strike phase instead of the normal phase, it doesn't do anything after the first instance.

I always had a strong dislike of slivers, since the Rath cycle. The general principle was to kill off the player using them, pronto. These new ones seem (of course) more b0rken still. Wonderful.

Actually, the new ones aren't that much better - the Muscle Sliver is totally in the league of the Virulent Sliver, but also kills creatures dead, whereas the Virulent Sliver in 4x is still a little critter that only kills players faster and can be blocked easily. And the price for best sliver probably goes to Crystalline Sliver, simply because it makes it very, very hard to deal with slivers - it basically negates all solutions except straight combat (which is hard with the pumping slivers, like that guy and the guys that give you evasive abilities) and board sweepers.

But slivers are a pain to play against (though it's manageable, if you know what you're facing).

Cheers, LT.

 

[Aus_Snow]

And the price for best sliver probably goes to Crystalline Sliver

Oh, hell yeah. Thanks, I'd almost gotten over the nightmares. . .

And manageable? Yes. You kill the player.

But yeah, the crystalline was of course the pick of the bunch. I had honestly forgotten just how bad the original array was. I think the serious deck I actually came up against was W/G/U, so that figures. Aggro-control? Or am I getting those terms mixed up again. Mrh.

Sorry el-remmen, should this be forked (all this extraneous stuff, that is) ? I keep feeling that it should, but I don't know what the thread would be called or um, about. Hm.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Fire Whip's (from Weatherlight) on Marsh Vipers are the way to go. Instead of reading Fire Whip as tap and deal one damage, read it as tap creature and give target player 2 poison counters.

Using your setup and depending on dual lands I'd try something like this:

Lands: (add up to 22 total)
3x Bayou
?x Badlands (4x if you can)
?x Taiga (4x if you can)
1x Maze of Ith
4x City of Brass (if you can)

Obviously, add Mts, Forests, and Swamps if you don't have the duals or City's.

Black: (12)
4x Terror
4x Diabolic Edict (from Tempest, target player sacs a creature)
2x Dark Ritual
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor (visions or 6th ed)

Green: (12)
4x Marsh Viper (kill card)
4x Quirion Elves (mana acceleration, can produce red or black as needed)
2x Fog
1x Regrowth
1x Sylvan Library

Red: (8)
4x Lightning Bolt (for creature control and secondary kill option)
4x Fire Whip (kill card)

Artificats: (6)
2x Meekstones
1x Sol Ring
2x Icy Manipulator
1x Zuran Orb

The goal is to lockdown creatures, slap a fire whip on your marsh vipers, and ping him to death, adding two poision counters per tap. You're gonna get killed by combo decks, but I doubt you'd be worried about that. Control decks might give you some trouble.

That's just using cards from stuff up to Tempest at the latest (with the Edicts).

Hope this helps.

 

[el-remmen]

Hey Thanks, Mr. Wilson!

I had not considered adding red to this deck, but fire whip looks like an interesting choice and direct damage is never a bad thing

 

[MerricB]

My basic problem with Mr Wilson's deck is that it lacks significant cards. Diabolic Edict is fantastic, but you're relying on drawing both the Fire Whip and the Marsh Viper and keeping them alive, and there's very little else in the deck to speed up card drawing. Dark Ritual isn't helping with enough cards - mostly it's a wasted draw. (count the spells that cost more than 2 mana!)

Visions is very early... and it's before Green became good. (Weatherlight was really the first "good" green set). Tempest gave Green it's first really incredible card (Verdant Force).

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

I am not convinced of the efficacy of enchantments (and you are right, esp. local enchantments). I rather have a one mana instant that does something for me when I need it unexpected by my opponent - and like I said charms rock because they give you a choice, widening their usefulness.

Death Pits of Rath turns (almost) every creature you have into a type of Basilisk. It's cool. Global Enchantments are also the hardest type of card to get rid of (except possibly land).

Ebony Charm? It has three uses, but...
...gain 1 life, opponent loses 1 life doesn't help the poison deck win
...remove 3 cards from graveyard is extremely limited in usefulness
...target creature gains fear is only marginally useful.

As for Tropical Storm - do you think I should switch them to hurricanes?

No. Both don't actually help your deck - they kill the mosquitoes, don't work against non-flyers, and Hurricane, as it deals damage to your opponent, isn't working towards the core theme of your deck. (Hurricane is awesome when you want to deal damage to your opponent. Not so good with poison.

Defense against flyers for a poison deck? Give me a Cockatrice! Or a Royal Assassin.

The version I am playing now has 3 City of Solitudes in it, so I took out the fogs.

I love that card.

Thinking about your deck, I'd try something like this myself:

7 x Forest
8 x Swamp
3 x Bayou
4 x Taiga

4 x Llanowar Elves
3 x Wall of Blossoms
4 x Marsh Viper
4 x Sabertooth Cobra
2 x Cockatrice
1 x Silklash Spider
3 x Elvish Aberration

1 x Sol Ring
2 x Giant Growth
1 x Demonic Tutor
2 x Diabolic Edict
3 x Dark Banishing
2 x Jayemdae Tome
2 x Serpent Generator
4 x Fire Whip

There's a bunch of later cards in there, but it's all from before the cardface changed. It may be one or two lands short, and I'm really not sure of some of the balance...

The Elvish Aberrations have "Forestcycling", which allow you to pay 2 mana and discard them from hand to search for a forest... including the Taiga and Bayou! If you can actually cast them (6 mana), they tap for GGG, which helps fuel the Jayemdae Tomes and Serpent Generators. Normally they'll be cycled, though. The Dark Banishings are terrors that also kill artifacts, and the Wall of Blossoms are cheap cantrip 0/4 walls. One of my favourite cards.

Cheers!

 

[el-remmen]

I don't own any taigas.

I may or may not have cockatrice - I feel like I do, but was never a card I used much since back in the days of decks with them and Lure.

As for green being "good" - I always thought of green as one of the best stand alone colors (white being the best overall) - so it surprises me that they tweaked up its power at all.

Then again, I don't understand a lot of the reasoning for how they mucked around with card balance - as some older stuff is nerfed, but some newer stuff seems out of this world to me.

I'm just a Magic fogey.