Taking a Break

[Raven Crowking]

Yeah, okay, I'll buy that. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, though.

Sure.

But, if you are trying to figure out why something is happening, it's often useful to look beyond the surface.

Again, YMMV.

RC

 

[Scribble]

And yet so many people HERE say 4e isn't D&D.

In their subjective viewpoint.

And so many people here have admitted that D&D can change to the point where it "wouldn't be D&D anymore," even the biggest 4e supporters.

In their subjective viewpoint.

You're taking something subjective and you're demanding it be objective.

No, I'm stating there are ojective things, but that it's possible to subjectively use them.

The Statue of liberty is objective.

Statue of Libertyesque or Statue of Liberty like qualities... Subjective.

Plus, I bet you could EASILY go to a game store and ask for something D&D-ish. He'd ask for a bit more clarification, but just by saying that you're already getting a selection of stuff in mind.

Which is exactly what i said. You can use subjective terms, they just require more definition or description to be useful.

In order for the shop keep to get you what you want, he'll need a better idea of what you consider D&D 1eish.

It's slightly easier in this case, because your subjective term is pointing back to the objetive though.

If I came in and said, I'm looking for something bubbly... that's a bit more open ended.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I wonder if the fear that EN World will become an exclusively 4e board is why some are trying to "win" the edition wars right now?

("Win" is in quotes because, as should be obvious, this is not something that can be won.)

From my vantage, EN has always been VERY pro-3pp, and dug into 3.5e well enough with many C&C threads and such, but they were also easy enough to marginalize to separate forums. Now, that 3pp loyalty has a lot of folks sticking to 3e and demonizing 4e.

So, I could easily see the 3e "faction" keeping EN and the 4e guys finding a forum where no one calls 4e videogamey...

Or it could go the other way, and as support for 3e is eroded, the board members will find themselves migrating to boards for their individual games, and eventually someone might have a core 3e game forum that caters to them...

It's really sort of up in the air right now, and I think the folks that suffer are the ones that like both editions, or just want to play.

 

[Raven Crowking]

So, I could easily see the 3e "faction" keeping EN and the 4e guys finding a forum where no one calls 4e videogamey...

Or it could go the other way, and as support for 3e is eroded, the board members will find themselves migrating to boards for their individual games, and eventually someone might have a core 3e game forum that caters to them...

I would rather neither of the above.

I look forward to a 5e with the strengths of both games.

RC

 

[Scribble]

I would rather neither of the above.

I look forward to a 5e with the strengths of both games.

RC

That's like D&D with the power of 2 D&Ds while one is on fire, and the other has shark teeth!

 

[Branduil]

Assuming 4e doesn't suddenly bomb, I think this forum will inevitably become 4e oriented, barring intervention from the administrators discouraging or banning its discussion, and I don't think that's likely. It's simply the natural way for things to go, water flowing downhill and all that. EnWorld is currently in the midst of a shift, and a shift is always painful. People get angry and insulted. And in the end the board will change, some will stay, some will be replaced by new faces. You can't know if the change will be good or bad, but change is inevitable.

 

[Fifth Element]

Thread forked re: discussion of D&D as an objective term.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?p=4404924#post4404924

 

[ThirdWizard]

I wonder if the fear that EN World will become an exclusively 4e board is why some are trying to "win" the edition wars right now?

I'm going to quote myself! I wrote this a couple of weeks ago in a edition wars thread, and I think the quote will link to the original post? I dunno if it works across threads. We shall see!

I think there is an underlying problem to this whole edition war thing. It seems to me that ENWorld itself is in an identity crisis, split down the middle between 3e and 4e players who are both worried about being marginalized as far as the community is concerned. ENWorld has a great community, and people who have chosen one edition of D&D over the other are, I think, rightly worried that the other edition is going to push them away from the community base.

The people sticking with 3e are worried that ENWorld will leave them with nowhere to really go to discuss their favorite edition. It is called Murrus' 4th Edition D&D now after all. ENWorld has been a 3e haven on the internet for intelligent discussion for about a decade now, the premiere 3e site. If it suddenly jumps into 4e head first, where does that leave them? They've put a lot of work and effort into ENWorld, building the community that makes this site so great, and to be summarily tossed, well, that's not fair at all.

The people moving to 4e are worried about ENWorld's 3e base, many of whom are long time respected members of this community, pushing them out of the site. They're already making a big leap with the new edition, and its becoming more and more obvious that despite what anyone may debate or argue about the majority of D&D's player base sticking with 3e or moving to 4e, there are a lot of ENWorlders sticking with 3e and very vocal about it. It leaves them wonderingn if, while ENWorld the site appears to be embracing 4e, the community is going to end up pushing them out.

Now this is just the people who have either switched completely or not at all. I think the majority of people haven't really made that kind of mental commitment. I also think that while both viewpoints are valid, that acting on these fears only worsens the situation. If you think you're being marginalized or pushed away, you want to push back, you want to make sure that you're being heard. But, since both sides are in this mentality, they feel that they're being attacked.

But, most people aren't really attacking. They're responding to perceived threats. I make this claim because both sides seem to be posting under the assumption that the other side is out to get them. They see offenses where none are meant, but when you see things like that everywhere its only a matter of time before things get real, people start fighting, and edition wars erupt, even if its contained not to look like it. Add to that that people here just like debate, and things

I don't know if I'm right, but I feel right. The atmosphere here feels different. On high alert. The more I think about it, the more I worry that the problem isn't really edition wars, but the perceptions of people regarding the future of the community. This itself isn't really something the moderators can solve themselves. We have to either make a conscious decision to allow 3e and 4e to both go unmolested or one group or the other will eventually run the other off. We don't want that, do we? I don't.

In other words: yes. I totally think its about winning ENWorld. Or, more precisely, both sides being in fear of not being welcome here.

 

[Raven Crowking]

That's like D&D with the power of 2 D&Ds while one is on fire, and the other has shark teeth!

Exactly what I want!

 

[JeffB]

I'm going to quote myself! I wrote this a couple of weeks ago in a edition wars thread, and I think the quote will link to the original post? I dunno if it works across threads. We shall see!

In other words: yes. I totally think its about winning ENWorld. Or, more precisely, both sides being in fear of not being welcome here.

I think the post of your own that you quoted, is pretty much spot-on. While I don't take my gaming seriously enough to *really* worry about not having a place to discuss my game of choice, I'm finding most forums pretty jumpy and volatile since 4E was announced, and even more-so now that it has been released.

As someone who likes 4E , and gave up on 3rd years ago, I'm not finding many forums very hospitable at the moment. Whether it's here, Necro, Paizo, whatever- most threads degenerate into some kind of BS Edition Wars at some point. I've yet to find a forum where I can just go and talk about 4E without SOMEONE coming in and telling us how X, Y, and Z in 4E suck and 3rd edition did it better. And I KNOW there are pro 4E people here on ENworld whom are just as guilty with the 4E can do no wrong diatribe.

I'd really like to see a "general forum" split so pro 4E'ers and Pro 3E'ers each have a place to talk without all the threadcrapping.

Or better yet, how about an separate Edition War forum like they had on DragonsFoot? With a slight difference- If you get personal with someone you get a permanent ban. No second chances, no 3 strikes. This way anyone who wants to debate can do so all night long without the rest of us having to be subjected to it in nearly every freaking thread!