Xander Harris Precedents

[Klaus]

double post...

 

[F5]

I think the precendent that the OP is looking for is that of the non-heroic character, placed in heroic circumstances. Watson may have had as much "special training" as, say, The Lone Ranger, but TLR is a hero who does heroic things, while Watson is a sidekick.

I think the Sam Gamgee comparison is good. The 15th-level commoner analogy is genius.

What makes Xander a unique character is the extent to which he KNOWS he's a non-hero, and still manages to operate in the hero's world. It's like he's a main character whose role is to be the token supporting character.

 

[Mark]

While he probably did recieve basic training, he was in the medical corps. Being an army doctor is different than being on the front lines with a gun in your hand.

If we stretch things out like this, you may as well rule out every character whose ever hunted because they're trained to use a gun (or bow, depending on the time period). We won't have anybody left then.



Okay, that's a little silly.

"You should shoot him in the heart, it's his weak point! I know, I'm a heart surgeon!"

"Kick him in the groin, that'll stop him! Trust me, I'm a urologist!"

"If my years as an optometrist have taught me anything, it's that you can blind a man by poking him in the eyes!"

"Fellow ninja, be careful! That man is a trained pediatrician! He knows a thousand ways to kill us!"

LOL Doctors are tough. And being in the military during a conflict toughens people, too, even if they are in the medical corps.

 

[Umbran]

I think the precendent that the OP is looking for is that of the non-heroic character, placed in heroic circumstances.

Specifically, an everyman hero working alongside a super hero. Buffy has powers far beyond those of mortal men, Xander is in some of the same fights, without powers.

I think much of the issue is, in fact, the fights - consider this related to the question of how you deal with a D&D adventuring party where there's high and low level characters working together.

 

[roguerouge]

This is another one of those things that make me wonder where the OP is going with all of this. Does Gabrielle from Xena count? She certainly starts out with no skills, but over the course of the series she learns to fend for herself. Do skills gained in the field disqualify one?

I'm in the brainstorming phase of writing about him as an "extraordinary ordinary" in the line of Aunt May, Alfred the Butler, and Lois Lane, but different from them in that he's not the passive symbol of what needs to be protected and/or the helpmeet that helps the hero recover, but also is, at least, fray-adjacent. And it occurred to me in my beginner's level knowledge of heroic fiction that I wasn't aware of too many ordinaries that fight the good fight, you know, actively.

And the reason why it's important to me... well, it's a passive role to be the helpless person that needs protecting, the lover who's frequently the hostage, the guide who never steps into the fray.... And, no matter how beloved those characters are, how vital they are to the hero carrying on, they still lag in agency. There's something important about the Xanders and Gamgees of the world. Their ordinariness is their power, their strength. And they suggest to the reader that a commitment to do good and the capability to change the world is not limited to those with extraordinary gifts: the mutants, the sons of kings, the demigods...

Sam is a great example, better than Frodo as he doesn't get all the boons from the famous NPCs or the big honkin' magic item.

Jimmy Olsen is actually referenced in the series, so good one there.

Commissioner Gordon feels wrong, somehow, perhaps because he's important. He has a position and men at his command, although, granted Xander with season 8...

The assistants to Dr. Who are excellent examples, but isn't there the implication of a sexual relationship off screen? I only know the recent series, which had a wonderful episode with a former assistant, so...

Doesn't Rick Jones get combat gymnastics training from Captain America? (And there's some other stuff later on... psionics?) And, [off-topic] why didn't Giles train Xander and Willow and Cordelia in self-defense? Why does Cordelia have to wait for Angel to train her? Giles and Wesley spar with epee, for crying out loud! [/off-topic]

Odysseus had the aid of the gods at times, but he was certainly out of the class of Agamemnon and Achilles. Perhaps that swineherd that aids him when he gets back?

Madame Fatal is not a bad precedent, actually, although I'd love to know if she was doing this in conjunction with other heroes running around, which would make the connection closer.

I'm inclined towards Harker. The accountant vs. Dracula is a good line.

Ripley's possible, although I'd have never thought of her as ordinary.

The Lone Gunmen? Possible. Do they ever take the field?

And, yes, the 15th level commoner operating in a PC's world is pretty much the idea that I'm getting at.

 

[Villano]

What about the original Carl Kolchak (the Night Stalker)? No powers, not physically skilled by any means, and no innate knowledge of the supernatural (he had to seek out experts to learn about each monster he fought).

 

[Brown Jenkin]

The assistants to Dr. Who are excellent examples, but isn't there the implication of a sexual relationship off screen? I only know the recent series, which had a wonderful episode with a former assistant, so...

Rose is the exception to the companions with the Doctor falling for her. The new series has mostly limited itself to female companions, unlike the old series which may have had about 1/3 male companions. Previous to the new series the only romantic interest was probably Romana (another Time Lord) with companion relationships strictly verboten (Apparently the 5th Doctor wasn't even allowed to put his arm around Nyssa or Tegan). The Doctors companions as heroic commoners go back to the very first companions with the otherwise ordinary science teacher Ian taking on much of the action.

Odysseus had the aid of the gods at times, but he was certainly out of the class of Agamemnon and Achilles. Perhaps that swineherd that aids him when he gets back?

Of course the aid of the gods is balanced by the fact that all the problems he got into were because of the gods. To argue that the gods helped him is much like the arguing that Xander doesn't count because occasionally a demon helps him for its own reason.

Ripley's possible, although I'd have never thought of her as ordinary.

Ripley was very much ordinary, in the first movie she was just a crew member on an undistinguished freighter. She survives by her wits alone. For the second one she has been demoted and is in bad economic shape. She is recruited for the mission not because of her fighting ability (That is what the Marines are for) but because she had prior experience with the aliens. Her big battle scene at the end vs. the queen was based on her ability to use a robotic loader from her past freighter job not any military training. Through most of the second movie she basically left the fighting to marines with guns.

The Lone Gunmen? Possible. Do they ever take the field?

There was at least one episode when they recounted first meeting Mulder that they played an active role. Plus they got their own TV show where they were all the action.

 

[Rackhir]

The assistants to Dr. Who are excellent examples, but isn't there the implication of a sexual relationship off screen? I only know the recent series, which had a wonderful episode with a former assistant, so...

In the old incarnation of the show, the relationship between the Doctor and his companions was never anything other than platonic. The romantic involvement angle is purely from the new incarnation. If you're referring to the new series episode with Sarah Jane Smith, that wasn't so much implying a sexual relationship as it was "You showed me the universe and since I left you I've been condemned to the mundane".

Doesn't Rick Jones get combat gymnastics training from Captain America?

Yes he did and he apparently managed to hold his own against fully grown adults, without even a shield like Cap.

Odysseus had the aid of the gods at times, but he was certainly out of the class of Agamemnon and Achilles. Perhaps that swineherd that aids him when he gets back?

No greek hero can possibly be considered a "normal" person. While he did piss off a number of the greek gods, he was also favored by several of them, Athena in particular. IIRC.

Ripley's possible, although I'd have never thought of her as ordinary.

Well she is the "hero" of the stories, but I'd have to agree she never had any special training or combat experience prior to her Xenomorph encounters. She got by basically on determination, nerves of steel and resourcefulness.

The Lone Gunmen? Possible. Do they ever take the field?

They did have their own short lived TV series. Though they picked up a younger more physically fit guy to handle some of the more rough and tumble stuff. They did get out in the field at least in the last episode of the X-files they were in (the one where they all died).

 

[Brown Jenkin]

No greek hero can possibly be considered a "normal" person. While he did piss off a number of the greek gods, he was also favored by several of them, Athena in particular. IIRC.

You can't consider Xander a normal person either. As far as Greek heroes go Odysseus was about the most normal of any. While others were unkillable or part god, Odysseus was a true mortal who was captured many times, afraid to die, and survived for the most part on his wits. His struggles were not for any grand heroic purpose, he just wanted to be home with his wife. While Odysseus is not a 15th level commoner, he is probably a 15th level Aristocrat but an NPC class nonetheless.

Edit: It could be considered as well that he started of as a sidekick and was eventually given his own spin-off show. It is in the Iliad that he first appears and is secondary to Achilles, Agamemnon, and Paris. It was only later that he made a name for himself in the Odyssey.

 

[Rackhir]

You can't consider Xander a normal person either. As far as Greek heroes go Odysseus was about the most normal of any. While others were unkillable or part god, Odysseus was a true mortal who was captured many times, afraid to die, and survived for the most part on his wits. His struggles were not for any grand heroic purpose, he just wanted to be home with his wife. While Odysseus is not a 15th level commoner, he is probably a 15th level Aristocrat but an NPC class nonetheless.

Edit: It could be considered as well that he started of as a sidekick and was eventually given his own spin-off show. It is in the Iliad that he first appears and is secondary to Achilles, Agamemnon, and Paris. It was only later that he made a name for himself in the Odyssey.

So that whole Trojan Horse thing he thought up, that wasn't very important then?

He get's his own recruitment story in the Iliad. He does a lot of stuff in the Iliad and a fair share of fighting. He stole one of the artifacts from Troy that prevented the city from falling. Put his ass on the line hiding in the Trojan Horse.

Obviously he was no Achilles or Hercules, but calling him just an aristocrat, is simply not accurate. He was no ordinary guy. Pretty much by definition, ordinary guys don't become Greek heroes.