Cheating cheaters
- Thread starter Obryn
- Start date
Xath
Moder-gator
There isn't just one right amount of random. That's why there are multiple systems. The amount of random is determined by the rules of the system you play. This woman has agreed to play in a game that has her roll a die and add a number. If she decides to cheat at this by lying about the number rolled on the die, this is cheating. If the woman has a fundemental disagreement about the idea of rolling a die and adding a number, she should probably play a different system. However, I doubt this is the case. More than likely, she hates rolling low, so she cheats and says she rolled higher than she did. While this may make the game more fun for her, it's pretty clear from Obryn's posts that it detracts from the enjoyment of the other players. If noone in the group cared, her behavior may be tolerable if not acceptable. However, her negative actions are detracting from the game, which is clearly unacceptable.
I would guess that they feel cheated because the other player is cheating...
jdrakeh
Front Range Warlock
Cheating has nothing to with playstyles or rules preferences but rather, a deliberate decision to engage in dishonesty. What I would recommend is that you talk to the problem player about her decision to be dishonest and tell her that it's causing issues with the other players who have chosen to not be dishonest. Explain that she basically has two option:
1. Start being honest.
2. Start playing in a different group.
That said, if the issue is only bothering you and none of the other players have specifically spoken to you about the dishonesty of this person, then you may be projecting your own feelings about the matter onto the other members of the group (i.e., assuming that the behavior in question is a big deal to everybody, when it isn't).
Ask your other players about it, specifically. If your other players are bothered by the situation, then confront the problem player. If it's now sweat off their backs, then you probably shouldn't sweat it, either, lest you come off looking like an obsessive control freak to the rest of the group
1. Start being honest.
2. Start playing in a different group.
That said, if the issue is only bothering you and none of the other players have specifically spoken to you about the dishonesty of this person, then you may be projecting your own feelings about the matter onto the other members of the group (i.e., assuming that the behavior in question is a big deal to everybody, when it isn't).
Ask your other players about it, specifically. If your other players are bothered by the situation, then confront the problem player. If it's now sweat off their backs, then you probably shouldn't sweat it, either, lest you come off looking like an obsessive control freak to the rest of the group
Obryn
Hero
Oh, no - like I said, I already got their buy-in on the plan.Ask your other players about it, specifically. If your other players are bothered by the situation, then confront the problem player. If it's now sweat off their backs, then you probably shouldn't sweat it, either, lest you come off looking like an obsessive control freak to the rest of the group
They were also the ones who alerted me to the issue, actually. I kinda figured something was up, since she was doing elementary cheater stuff - rerolls when I'm not looking, picking up her dice and staring at the number rather than leaving them on the table, hesitating before reading off numbers... They filled me in after the game one night.
It bothers them more than it does me.
-O
rgard
Adventurer
I understood his intent and agree with Delta.
The 'why' isn't important. I don't care why people cheat at the table. It's not my job as DM or player to figure out why. Cheating doesn't fly in any of my games. When I DM, the cheater is booted if caught. As a player I will leave the game if the DM doesn't stop the cheating.
Thanks,
Rich
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While I may not be on-board with “valid playstyle” or the pysch angle, I do think they’re only damaging themself. They know what they’re doing and probably aren’t proud of it. They probably know the suspicion they’re engendering and aren’t proud of that either. Even if they don’t know, they are losing the respect of you and the others. And while it may bother the rest of you, this is a coöperative game (some would even say it doesn’t qualify as a “game”) so it’s not quite the same as cheating in a competitive game.
I think you have a simple choice:
1. Institute some of the suggestions for trying to minimize the cheating and you and the others try to remember that this person is hurting themself more than you.
2. Stop inviting them to the sessions.
And here’s the real problem.
1. The lack of hard evidence means it is very unlikely they’ll own up to it and change.
2. If you have no hard evidence, you may be wrong.
I think you have a simple choice:
1. Institute some of the suggestions for trying to minimize the cheating and you and the others try to remember that this person is hurting themself more than you.
2. Stop inviting them to the sessions.
And here’s the real problem.
1. The lack of hard evidence means it is very unlikely they’ll own up to it and change.
2. If you have no hard evidence, you may be wrong.
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Aluvial
Explorer
Interesting discussion. Cheating is an ethical issue. Cheating is lying. Lying is an ethical issue.
Anyhow, there are numerous ways to fix cheating players.
1) Stomp them harder, every time. DM's cheat. DM's therefore lie. Fortunately the rules say that we can... still, an ethical issue, one where the DM finds himself on the "dark" side of the line. Too bad cheating player. You cheat, I cheat worse. Childish, but mildly effective.
2) Curse them. Negatives on all rolls will do wonders for cheaters... first expect the backlash of even greater cheating, then as things escalate, cheating becomes unavoidable issue.
3) Send them an email daily with this thread.
OR, do what I did...
4) Make them use these...
http://www.gmdice.com/proddetail.php?prod=OD-16451
also comes in BLUE....
Really, #4. GIANT DICE! This sends a pretty clear message that the roller will pick up on.
Aluvial
Anyhow, there are numerous ways to fix cheating players.
1) Stomp them harder, every time. DM's cheat. DM's therefore lie. Fortunately the rules say that we can... still, an ethical issue, one where the DM finds himself on the "dark" side of the line. Too bad cheating player. You cheat, I cheat worse. Childish, but mildly effective.
2) Curse them. Negatives on all rolls will do wonders for cheaters... first expect the backlash of even greater cheating, then as things escalate, cheating becomes unavoidable issue.
3) Send them an email daily with this thread.
OR, do what I did...
4) Make them use these...
http://www.gmdice.com/proddetail.php?prod=OD-16451
also comes in BLUE....
Really, #4. GIANT DICE! This sends a pretty clear message that the roller will pick up on.
Aluvial
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Obryn
Hero
I understand your point, but my eyes, my players' eyes, and her die-rolling behavior is plenty.
-O
jdrakeh
Front Range Warlock
You know, I was so distracted by some of the other responses that I totally missed that!
Mephistopheles
First Post
When you're calling her on it in front of the group it's not surprising she would be defensive, her only alternative may be to say "Yes, I'm cheating, it was a 7" (assuming she is cheating).
My prediction is that if people start to call her dice before she can fudge them she'll just retreat and roll her dice where nobody can see them. If you've established that it's a problem for your group, and I think the majority of groups would feel that way, I'd suggest talking to her about it in private with a good dose of tact as others have outlined already.
