Marked targets knowing about Combat Challenge

[Ahglock]

I'm saying there's a difference between "X has been done to you", and "He might do X to you".



-Hyp.

For me the difference with a fighters marking is, he might do X to you because he did Y to you. You know of the might X because he did the Y.

I think the might happen since it is dependent on the mark is supposed to represent the effect that someone is having a harder time shifting past the fighter without creating an opening. They know they have a harder time getting past the fighter without creating an opening.

For me it would be like saying the adventurer does not know that running across the 1 inch wide beam is harder than running across the 2ft wide beam, since falling to your death is an effect that could happen but has not happened yet.

 

[Shabe]

For me the difference with a fighters marking is, he might do X to you because he did Y to you. You know of the might X because he did the Y.

I think the might happen since it is dependent on the mark is supposed to represent the effect that someone is having a harder time shifting past the fighter without creating an opening. They know they have a harder time getting past the fighter without creating an opening.

For me it would be like saying the adventurer does not know that running across the 1 inch wide beam is harder than running across the 2ft wide beam, since falling to your death is an effect that could happen but has not happened yet.

People can explain it either way neither makes more sense than the other.

1. The fighter is paying close attention to you making sure you focus your attention on him.
As you were attempting to move away, you figure he sure was paying attention as a blow comes swinging in from an unexpected angle.

2. The fighter is actively parrying and harrassing you and could get a quick blow in if you don't soley focus on taking him down.
You attempt to strike the sneaky rogue to your left and grit your teeth as the fighters blow you knew was coming connects.

I think its more fun (and I think the rules support it, such as marks from different sources and wording) if its an unexpected ability which can catch an opponent off guard.

 

[Staffan]

I think this is less about RAW and more about "will it be fun".

If every marked monster knows it will be attacked if it shifts or attacks a non-Fighter ally, and therefore avoids those actions, the Fighter will never be able to use his Opportunity Attacks, and any feats spent on Opportunity Attacks will be wasted.

The attacks granted by Combat Challenge aren't opportunity attacks, so feats invested in improving opportunity attacks, as well as the fighter ability to get +Wis to hit with them, won't come into play. It's "a melee basic attack against that enemy as an immediate interrupt."

Opportunity attacks for the fighter are mostly a way of "catching" the opponents, not keeping them stuck.

 

[Goumindong]

I think "will be attacked if it shifts or attacks someone other than you" counts as a "condition" for the purposes of the page 57 statement.

The only plausible argument against counting it as a condition would be to try to argue that "condition" only covers things with snappy names like "marked" or "dazed," but that argument doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense in the overall context of the game. I'm pretty sure that "condition" isn't a defined term.

It does not.

Combat Challenge is a separate power, an Immediate Interrupt that the fighter gets to use on marked targets. It is not an effect of the mark.

Once they are attacked however, i would rule that they know exactly why they were attacked and whether or not he can keep doing it.

Ah! Got it. Thanks!

Still, I'm likely to rule at my table differently, at least for the Fighter's Combat Challenge ability. It piggy-backs on any attack power the Ftr uses (even if he misses), so it makes more sense to think of it as an imposed effect (you could get whacked if you shift), rather than (as the RAW does) a choice the Ftr makes at the time the target shifts.

But I "get" the distinction.

To be fair, I'll give the PCs the same consideration when "locked down" by a monster.

No, an example of a "piggybacking" power would be the part that makes targets hit with an OA stop moving.

 

[Klaus]

The attacks granted by Combat Challenge aren't opportunity attacks, so feats invested in improving opportunity attacks, as well as the fighter ability to get +Wis to hit with them, won't come into play. It's "a melee basic attack against that enemy as an immediate interrupt."

Opportunity attacks for the fighter are mostly a way of "catching" the opponents, not keeping them stuck.

You're absilutely right. I was mixing the Combat Challenge feature with the opportunity attacks the warlord in my game grants with his powers.