Dragonlance 4e in 2010?

[Mercurius]

Count me among those that don't want to see Dragonlance in 2010; that would mean that, at the earliest, Wizards would be putting out a new setting in 2011...three years after 4E started.

I also think it more likely that Dark Sun gets official treatment before Dragonlance, but who knows? Wizards might not even be sure what they're going to do after Eberron in 2009.

 

[Nifft]

I never played or read Dragonlance.

Would anyone like to pitch the setting's cool hooks and/or unique feel?

Thanks, -- N

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Count me among those that don't want to see Dragonlance in 2010; that would mean that, at the earliest, Wizards would be putting out a new setting in 2011...three years after 4E started.

I also think it more likely that Dark Sun gets official treatment before Dragonlance, but who knows? Wizards might not even be sure what they're going to do after Eberron in 2009.

Do they even went to put out new settings? I'd like to see some (at least one using the entire PoL background information), but I am not sure that's even a goal.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

EnWorld has an ignore function?

What an excellent idea.

The settings hasn´t even been announced and the whining how it is going to be ruined is already starting? Bah! I want Dragonlance, and i want a creative re-imagination! Smash it to pieces and set it together anew! No chaos war crap, no half-hearted continuing of the storyline ("events this summer: Draconian army 34 moves from A to B"). Be creative and agressive about it - i don´t need "slightly changed classic dragonlance." I own that already.

 

[Dire Bare]

Okay count me in as a hopeful skeptic, but in the early days of 3E, Dragonlance was also quoted by WotC as one of the settings that would receive an official treatment. That commitment was then withdrawn... in favour of MWP's most excellent licensed output, admittedly.

Not quite. WotC promised 3e support for Dragonlance, and delivered. The first setting book was actually published by WotC! The subsequent books were published by Sovereign Press (which I believe morphed in Margaret Weiss Publishing or some such). We got tons of official 3e Dragonlance books! Yes, the majority of the line was licensed, but who cares?

 

[Remathilis]

Heh, I always thought 4e would be a good fit for Dragonlance...

Draconians (Dragonborn)? Check.
Three mechanically distinct fey races (elves)? Check.
Wizards with staves? Check.
Kender (halflings)? Check.
Civilized Minotaurs? Check.
The Abyss as something more than the CE plane? Check!

All that Dragonlance would really need to do is explain away tieflings (not hard) and the PHB is good out the door!

As a bonus: DL would bring Wizard of High Sorcery Paragon Paths, Knight of Solomnia Paragon, Handler Paragon Path, and a bunch of cool stuff.

While I'd have gone either Ravenloft (which appears to be worming itself into the core) or Planescape (ditto, see MotP), Dragonlance works.

Bring on Dark Sun 2011!

 

[Dausuul]

I never played or read Dragonlance.

Would anyone like to pitch the setting's cool hooks and/or unique feel?

Hmm... well, I don't know that it really has cool hooks, per se. It's one of the oldest D&D settings, dating all the way back to 1st Edition, and settings back then tended to be relatively generic - as I recall, it wasn't until 2E that we started getting exotic settings like Dark Sun, Planescape, and Spelljammer.

I guess I'd say that the defining trait of the Dragonlance setting, as compared to Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk, is that Dragonlance has an overarching narrative which is mostly lacking in the other two. Some of the specific features of Dragonlance are:

• A clearly delineated, Manichean clash of Big Good versus Big Evil. Instead of an assortment of loosely affiliated deities, the Dragonlance gods are divided into three pantheons - good, evil, and neutral - with established leaders and nobody unaccounted for*. The conflict between Paladine, the chief god of good, and Takhisis, the chief goddess of evil, drives much of the story.
• A philosophical commitment to a balance between good and evil. The good and neutral gods have an alliance, wherein they both try to maintain the balance. The evil gods have no interest in balance and are constantly trying to tip the scales in favor of evil. The way this generally plays out is that good and evil are roughly balanced; evil launches a campaign to become ascendant; good intervenes to put a stop to it and restore the status quo.
• Dragons are not solitary monsters; they are agents of the gods and take an active part in the aforementioned good-versus-evil clash. Powerful leaders on both sides ride on dragon mounts, and big armies often have dragon air support. The gods themselves have a dragon theme going on. Paladine is also called the Platinum Dragon and looks a lot like Bahamut; Takhisis is the Five-Headed Dragon and is a dead ringer for Tiamat**.
• A tendency for world-spanning organizations to dominate the action. Beyond the first few levels, all wizards must take a Test and join one of the three orders of wizardry (the White Robes, Red Robes, or Black Robes, again corresponding to good, neutral, and evil). Instead of traditional paladins, Dragonlance has the Knights of Solamnia, a powerful order dedicated to the service of the good gods and bound by an ancient code of laws. The forces of evil are largely controlled by the Dragon Highlords. And so on.

The upshot of all this is that Dragonlance lends itself to epic fantasy in the Tolkien style, while Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk are much more swords-and-sorcery. This is somewhat limiting from a DM perspective, because you're locked into the overarching narrative - you can't introduce a new Big Evil without explaining what the heck happened to Takhisis. On the other hand, if you're okay with following that narrative, the whole setting supports it.

Also, Dragonlance was responsible for perpetrating both kender and tinker gnomes.

[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-2]* Raistlin Majere doesn't count.[/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-2]** In fact, when 2E launched its ill-fated effort to consolidate all its campaign worlds into a single multiverse, they declared that Paladine was Bahamut and Takhisis was Tiamat, just going by different names for the benefit of their followers on Krynn (the world of Dragonlance).
[/SIZE][/SIZE]

 

[wedgeski]

Not quite. WotC promised 3e support for Dragonlance, and delivered. The first setting book was actually published by WotC! The subsequent books were published by Sovereign Press (which I believe morphed in Margaret Weiss Publishing or some such). We got tons of official 3e Dragonlance books! Yes, the majority of the line was licensed, but who cares?

Well, being picky about who published the DLCS aside (the SP guys certainly wrote it), it's a different implied goal. FR and DL were originally both stated as being in the pipeline for a 3E treatment from Wizards, then they announced that they'd changed their mind about DL (announced might be extravagant... I believe Jim Butler posted a message somewhere... it was a long time ago, memory... hazy...). Some time after that, they then licensed it to SP. To me, licensing a property, and developing it in-house, say two different things about how that property is valued. Cam or Dragonhelm might have better recall about how it all went down.

Having said that, Sovereign Press's output was, on the whole, damn good, and I think they did the line proud.

 

[Whitemouse]

I have fond memories of playing 2E Dragonlance. I never got into Dragonlance in its 3E conception, but I know I'd love to see the setting updated for 4E.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Dragonlance always was low powered. Just compare the first books with some FR books, like the ones about Drizzt.

The Drizzt books were never intended to track a written adventure. The DL books tracked the DL adventures, including starting at low level and leveling up. The DL books did a pretty good job of describing what it's like to be a low level Hero.

Also: Raistlin (Wiz 20, Master of Past and Present), Ariakas (Ftr/Wiz 20, Dragon Highlord), Ariakan (Half-God Ftr 20 Dragon Highlord), Astinus (God's Aspect, Immortal), Fistandantilus, Kingpriest of Istar, Par Salian ...

Are these people PCs? Does it matter? If Elminster and the Simbul make FR "high powered" than you have to count Par Salian, Raistlin, etc. too. Fair's fair.

I would also like to point out that any setting where there are standing armies that ride Elder Wyrm Red, Gold, Blue, etc. dragons can not, in any sense of the word, be "low powered." Regardless of what level their riders are.

Lastly, Kaz would kick Drizzt's ass.

Mechanically characters in DL always had more restrictions than normal D&D characters. Magic was restricted through the Order and through a (optional) drain mechanic and in 2E there was even a level cap for DL characters at lvl 18.

I fail to see why a DL 4E couldn't adopt similar restrictions if they wanted to. Just because the current 4E rules don't map perfectly to Krynn doesn't mean that couldn't be fixed.

low powered and the 4E power system doesn't mix.

This is categorically false. They map fine. The simplest way to do it is cap level advancement at Level X (whether X=10, 15, 20, etc. depends on what you're aiming for). But there are other ways too. Rather than be small-minded about it and continually repeat the untrue you should try it some time.

As for DL being a point of light setting, not in the traditional sense.

You don't consider Solace a point of light? What about Tarsis?

the darkness was very lawful and not chaotic like in traditional PoL settings.

Takhisis was Lawful Evil? Who knew! </sarcasm>

Red Dragons, goblins, draconians - plenty of chaotic evil to go around.

The wilderness wasn't untamed and full of monsters

Of course. The comfortable resting spot outside Solace, the road to Haven, Darken Wood, the plains of Que Shu and Xak Tsaroth weren't at all like that. Very civilized. No monsters at all.

Am I out of Chapter 5 of the very first book yet?

Instead you had had tyrants who ruled over the land, but the land itself was rather safe.

This is true. No one ever was attacked by monsters while traveling the roads of Krynn. Not in any of the novels I read.

Wait, no, the opposite.

Even the goblins and ogres in DL build cities.

Yeah, cities full of goblins and ogres.

Actually, check that. What cities are you talking about? The closest thing to a city I can think of was Neraka (which was a ruin from a previous Age) and the army camps set up by Draconians (not ogres or goblins). Ogres and goblins attacked, sacked, and occupied cities (like Vikings on PCP), but I don't recall them building any.

Are you sure you're talking about Dragonlance? Maybe you were thinking of something else ...