Dragonlance 4e in 2010?

[Dire Bare]

TSR (as was) made a terrible mistake with Dark Sun in publishing the Prism Pentad at all. Amusingly, they actually warn against doing exactly what they did (present a detailed setting, and then immediately trash it) in the "Campaign Sourcebook and Catacomb Guide"!

WotC were therefore right to reboot that setting back to just after the first novel. It's just unfortunate that they then rereleased the offending Prism Pentad, where they would have been better off matching the reboot with a new line of novels. Oh well, can't have everything I guess.

I disagree that the novels were ever a mistake . . . back in the day or more recently. I enjoyed the hell out of them, and while they did change the setting significantly from the initial boxed set, they never impinged upon my enjoyment of the Dark Sun setting or my ability to run a Dark Sun game. As far as "canon" goes, I just saw the novels as an "example" campaign. My players faced many of the same challenges, but with different choices and different results. I never understood all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over them.

 

[Dire Bare]

In all honesty, Dragonlance doesn't feel like a great match for 4e.

Heh, not trying to pick on you today Delericho! But I disagree here also. I think a good game design team could easily do a fantastic job with a 4e Dragonlance . . . and while it certainly is a "standard" epic fantasy campaign, it's also a classic and would do well.

I'd love to see two books for a 4e Dragonlance reboot. The first book would be the standard campaign book, but rebooted back to the beginning of the War of the Lance. No separate player's book. I wouldn't reprint the entire original module series yet again, but I would use them as the basis for campaign advice in this book.

The second book would be a "companion" campaign book, offering all of the options and information to run a DL campaign in any era, including the "current" era . . . which I would advance a bit beyond the most recent RPG books released. No separate monster book, just have all iconic DL monsters spread out between the two books. The two books wouldn't even have to be released back-to-back, but could be spread out a bit.

Oh, and playable Draconians using Dragonborn rules and some new feats in the second book! And themes, like Dark Sun uses. Maybe: Priest of the Holy Stars (Divine Theme), Mage of the Three Orders (Arcane Theme), Solamnic Knights (Divine Theme) . . . and maybe Nerakan Knight (Martial Theme), Renegade Mage (Arcane) . . . . I can think of more ideas I'd want to see as themes than as prestige classes!

And I'd tie in the new game releases with a new animated series based on the original series . . . . that didn't suck like the last one we got.

 

[Dragonhelm]

Heh, not trying to pick on you today Delericho! But I disagree here also. I think a good game design team could easily do a fantastic job with a 4e Dragonlance . . . and while it certainly is a "standard" epic fantasy campaign, it's also a classic and would do well.

My initial thought was that 4th edition wasn't the best fit for Dragonlance. It's a world designed around AD&D tropes. When we updated Dragonlance to 3.5, there were a few bumps, but it turned out to be a good fit for DL. I still say that Dragonlance is a great world for showcasing how prestige classes can be put to best effect.

As I delved into Dragonlance 4e for the Dragonlance Nexus, I was seeing a lot of great connections and opportunities. 4th edition does work for DL. We just have to view DL through the "lens" of 4th edition.

Oh, and playable Draconians using Dragonborn rules and some new feats in the second book!

Yes, I think using the dragonborn as a foundation for draconians is the way to go. It might even be an opportunity to showcase the noble draconians a bit more.

And themes, like Dark Sun uses. Maybe: Priest of the Holy Stars (Divine Theme), Mage of the Three Orders (Arcane Theme), Solamnic Knights (Divine Theme) . . . and maybe Nerakan Knight (Martial Theme), Renegade Mage (Arcane) . . . . I can think of more ideas I'd want to see as themes than as prestige classes!

Themes are one of the best innovations from Dark Sun, and something I want to implement into Dragonlance. I've had similar ideas to yours, though some wouldn't work out as well.

Consider that a theme is open to any class. So when we seek to apply a theme for Solamnic or Nerakan Knights, ask yourself if you want them to include classes that don't fit the archetype. A primal knight? That's a tough one.

Steel Legionnaire would make a good theme, though. The Legion of Steel takes in all types, so having a primal or psionic Legionnaire works perfectly.

Wizard of High Sorcery can work, though I would consider an exception to the rule and have a prerequisite of any arcane class. This is a little different than how 3.5 handled arcane classes, but it can be fun.

Noble and mariner are both backgrounds currently, but they were also classes for Dragonlance in 3.5. It's possible they may make good themes too.

I'm really excited by the idea of a mystic theme. In 3.5 it was a class, which was to the cleric what the sorcerer was to the wizard. However, back in the SAGA days, the mystic covered inner divine power and the divine power of life. Magic was divided into "spheres," much like how cleric magic was in AD&D. These spheres, in 4e terms, cover the divine, primal, and psionic power sources. So as a theme, the mystic can replicate some of the feel of the SAGA mystic.

I'd love to hear more ideas. I'm trying to work up some 4e conversions and would like to hear more.

 

[Dire Bare]

Consider that a theme is open to any class. So when we seek to apply a theme for Solamnic or Nerakan Knights, ask yourself if you want them to include classes that don't fit the archetype. A primal knight? That's a tough one.

Not sure my off-the-cuff ideas are the best way to go, but if you look at how the Dark Sun themes are designed, they are open to any class, but are designed to fit certain classes or power sources. Templars are ideally warlocks with the sorcerer-king pact, but other arcane classes work well too. And a character with another power source can become a templar, but it's weird and should be a unique character story. A primal templar? Weird, but can be done.

A Mage of High Sorcery theme would be designed to be ideal for wizards . . . but would also work well for any arcane class. And since the theme powers themselves would be arcane spells, any other class that takes the theme would then become an arcane spellcaster, if in a limited fashion. So a martial or primal Mage of High Sorcery? Yes, weird, but could be done (well, if designed that way, of course).

I'm not as familiar with later versions of Dragonlance as I'd like to be, but I remember thinking . . . so, if you're a wizard, you better sign up with the three orders or they'll grief ya until the end of your days . . . but if you're a bard, you're okay despite your arcane spellcasting. In both 3e and 4e that would become more problematic, as there are several arcane spellcasting classes beyond wizard and bard.

Similar ideas behind other DL themes too, such as any sort of martial or other warriors signing up with the Solamnic Knights (or Nerakans, or Legionaires). For the knighthoods I'd have a theme for each order, "Solamnic Knight", and tiered feats that unlock theme powers with feat prereqs. Initially, all your Solamnic Knight theme powers would be martial. But take the "Sword Knight" feat and then later the "Rose Knight" feat, and you open up divine theme powers with these feats as prereqs.

Yeah, and I think Noble and Mariner would make good themes too.