Dragonlance 4e in 2010?

[Cam Banks]

Oh sure, I get the complaint, and I agree.

In many ways, I think it'd be interesting to look at the troublesome section of the Dragonlance timeline and reboot THAT, rather than simply go back to the War of the Lance again.

In other words, take the Chaos War and map it out as a multi-part adventure path with multiple endings, really bring in the epic nature of it and the traumatic outcomes.

I would point to Key of Destiny/Spectre of Sorrows/Price of Courage, however, as a way to go from 1st to 20th level and get right to the heart of the effects of wide-reaching power, events, and godlike interference. And that's an Age of Mortals campaign.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[ferratus]

Aside from the fact that the War of the Lance has been done to death in novels and adventures, we just got a 3e update to the Chronicles modules a couple years ago done by Cam Banks and others when it was licensed to MWP.

The Chaos War redone would be a fairly interesting setting, since you could reboot the 5A stuff which (while it has its fans, as everything does) was generally not very well received by the wider DL fanbase. However, the Chaos War is an apocalyptic campaign, which is hard to undo if it is done. It works better as a potential future threat. What campaign storyline could match the end of the world in importance? WotC shared world strategy these days is just to release a Player's Guide, and Campaign Setting and an Adventure Book. I suppose that means one wouldn't have to worry about any post-apocolyptic cleanup... but then what do you do when you want to revive the DL property for 5e?

I think the best time for DL adventuring would be the 2nd Generation anthology. You have 25+ years of distance between the War of the Lance and the current time and the Knights of Nereka(Takhisis) were built up very effectively as a larger threat than the dragonarmies had been a generation before. In this way the setting is like Eberron, which also has a great war behind them but the potential for a greater and more devastating war on the horizon. This time period would also make the original Chronicles novels serve as a good introduction to the setting, while they were largely useless in terms of introducing new players to the Age of Mortals Dragonlance unless they also read at least 10 other books.

Most of all though, the 2nd generation anthology was the last time DL storyline seemed to be moving forward with almost all of the DL fanbase on board. There are fans of certain ideas that came afterward, but nearly every fan has something that they absolutely loathe about the storylines that came afterward.

I do love your idea of giving hints of what might happen in the future rather than a hard direction for the setting, because that would also allow WotC to salvage the 5th Age and Age of Mortals novels that they have already written, and keep them as canonical parts of the setting. So use the 2nd Generation time period as the time period for the game materials, and then have a paragraph describing the branches on the River of Time that might make up Krynn's future:

The Conquest of the Dark Knights - The Dark Knights lie in wait waiting for the chance to to gather the forces of Darkness together and conquer Krynn in the name of their Dark Queen. Will your characters be able to stop them through commanding legions, or will you have to struggle to overthrow their tyranny as a hidden resistance? Recommended Reading: Dragons of Summer Flame, Palanthas SAGA supplement.

The Ascendancy of the Dragon Overlords - Dragons are already among the mightiest of Krynn's creatures but some lust for even more power. Secret, blasphemous rites exist for amassing power by assembling the skulls of their enemies in giant totems that will give the survivors god-like strength and absolute mastery over the realms they claim. Recommended Reading: Dragons of a New Age.

The Death of Takhisis - The Dark Queen has always been ambitious and overreaching, and has felt the pain of Huma's Lance as a price for that ambition. Will your characters be the ones to end her life once and for all, and which god or goddess will arise to restore the balance? Recommended Reading: Dragons of a Vanished Moon, Amber and Iron.

The Chaos War - The Greygem is Krynn's most powerful artifact, but little do people realize that it is also the key for unleashing the mightiest primordial of the Elemental Chaos, the Father of All and Nothing. Can any heroes face the end of Krynn itself? Recommended Reading: Dragons of Summer Flame.

So there you have the Age of Mortals and the 5th Age acknowledged as a part of DL canon, so you don't annoy the minority fanbase and novel collectors, but you keep the best era for gaming in because it appeals to the widest segment of the fanbase and doesn't require nearly so much backstory to introduce new players. Not to mention the 5th Age designers weren't nearly so respective of setting themes and canon as we might have liked, given you had to basically come back and try to knit it all back together so it made sense. Having the alternate futures allows the novels to be presented as one way the history of Krynn could unfold, while still giving the DL DM's the freedom to introduce some cool world shaking ideas in a manner that is consistent with their own view of the setting.

 

[lrsach01]

Cam! Nice example of the passage of time. I'm a FAN of Dragonlance (half way through running Price of Courage now) and I never really put together the span of years.

 

[LiquidKing]

I don't know if there would still exist some interest in this thread, but I'd like to present some thoughts.

I was thinking about a new release of DL under the new rules after I'd taken a look at the new Dark Sun campaign setting which, as you may know, was reseted to somewhen before the killing of the dragon of Tyr (and some other SK), and I don't think that should happen to DL. I didn't really understand the re-release of the prism pentad series for by the last volume we are presented with the mentioned assassination of Borys... and then you read the Campaign Setting and go completely WTF!

I don't think that should happen to dragonlance, which builds so much around the novels (trilogies). You see, after the brilliant stories from Pierson, Knaak, Thompson, Mary Herbert and, of course, mrs Weis in the AoM, I think the Cataclysmic wars are at bay. Revisiting the old "Dragonlance adventures" and the tales of the lance boxed set it came to me that the setting has much to offer as it is, and even more than before. But the 3e material lacks something the 2e material was plenty of, something about organization and presentation. The 3e material centered too much in "the world that was" and confused many newcomers to the setting. Many already dead characters of Krynn were presented for what they was, but with little interest for the world that is. Well, if the world advances 20 years after the elven exiles trilogy it may be possible to center around "the world that is" which, for the players, is what really matters to a campaign. The world that may be is the opportunity of development, and the world that was (including the WoL, CW and WoS) is flavour and meaning. Those who wishes to deepen this flavours have lots of novels at disposal.

Well, that's it.

 

[Dragonhelm]

Welcome to the boards! If you want to talk more about Dragonlance, we have a wonderful forum at DragonlanceForums.com dedicated to just that.

You make a good point, which is that Dragonlance could stand to have a new entry point. Right now, to get caught up to the current time, you have to read something like 20 books. That's vastly overwhelming to new fans.

The problem, though, is that the most popular era of the setting is the War of the Lance, and the entry point is the Holy Six - Chronicles and Legends. Those series are so popular that it's hard to believe any other series taking their place as an entry point.

There are a few options...

1. WotC could reset the timeline, ala Star Trek, to just after Legends. That probably wouldn't go over well, as it may be perceived as invalidating novels, and causing confusion.

2. WotC could just revisit the WotL and leave the future open. Possibly invalidates novels.

3. WotC could go the Ultimates route. Invalidates novels, including Chronicles and Legends.

4. Time jump. Dragonlance has been there and done that with the Fifth Age products, which landed up splitting the fan base (though part of that is the switch to the SAGA rules). You also have the entry point issue.

No matter which way they go, there will be some issue. I can see certain benefits to some, as well as drawbacks.

I do hope that we will see a 4th edition Dragonlance someday. While the Margaret Weis Productions era is considered the golden era of Dragonlance gaming by many fans, there are still a lot of good things WotC can do with the setting.

Dragonlance fans are chomping at the bit, awaiting the return of their beloved setting, and for the return of Dragonlance novels.

 

[delericho]

In all honesty, Dragonlance doesn't feel like a great match for 4e. Also, it suffers from being a bit too "vanilla fantasy" - FR and the default setting would seem to have that covered pretty well, and have more market presence as well. Finally, DL suffers from the same issues as Star Wars - the Heroes of the Lance feel like "the stars of the show", which makes it difficult to make room for the PCs in the campaign.

(And with the added issues of post-War of Souls not feeling like classic Dragonlance all that much, yet any previous era makes it a prequel, and prequels suck.)

Now, all that said, if they are going to do DL for 4e, my vote would be to go down the reboot route (as, frankly, they should have done with FR). Reboot back to the start of the War of the Lance, present Solace as the starting town/point of light, and go from there. For gaming purposes, remove Tanis, Raistlin and the rest from the setting entirely.

But that's just me.

 

[delericho]

While the Margaret Weis Productions era is considered the golden era of Dragonlance gaming by many fans, there are still a lot of good things WotC can do with the setting.

This is certainly true.

Dragonlance fans are chomping at the bit, awaiting the return of their beloved setting, and for the return of Dragonlance novels.

Though in my case, I considered "Dragons of the Hourglass Mage" to be an ideal ending for the novel series. It had a really good run, but I'm not sure how best WotC could use the setting (for novels).

 

[delericho]

I was thinking about a new release of DL under the new rules after I'd taken a look at the new Dark Sun campaign setting which, as you may know, was reseted to somewhen before the killing of the dragon of Tyr (and some other SK), and I don't think that should happen to DL. I didn't really understand the re-release of the prism pentad series for by the last volume we are presented with the mentioned assassination of Borys... and then you read the Campaign Setting and go completely WTF!

TSR (as was) made a terrible mistake with Dark Sun in publishing the Prism Pentad at all. Amusingly, they actually warn against doing exactly what they did (present a detailed setting, and then immediately trash it) in the "Campaign Sourcebook and Catacomb Guide"!

WotC were therefore right to reboot that setting back to just after the first novel. It's just unfortunate that they then rereleased the offending Prism Pentad, where they would have been better off matching the reboot with a new line of novels. Oh well, can't have everything I guess.

 

[M.L. Martin]

WotC were therefore right to reboot that setting back to just after the first novel. It's just unfortunate that they then rereleased the offending Prism Pentad, where they would have been better off matching the reboot with a new line of novels. Oh well, can't have everything I guess.

The Prism Pentad rerelease was probably a priming the pump for DS at fairly low cost, and taking advantage of the fact that Troy Denning is now a fairly big name in SF due to his role as a key author on recent Star Wars novels.

But the new DS novels start coming out next month, with [ame="http://www.amazon.com/City-Under-Sand-Dungeons-Dragons/dp/0786956232/ref=sr_1_9?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1284836970&sr=1-9"]City Under the Sand[/ame] by Jeff Mariotte, and then [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Under-Crimson-Sun-Abyssal-Plague/dp/0786957972/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1284836970&sr=1-1"]Under the Crimson Sun[/ame] by Keith R. A. DeCandido (whose Star Trek books tend to be quite good) next June.

Back onto the original topic . . . I'm not sure what can be done with Dragonlance. I'd be inclined to go back to what some members of the Fifth Age team would have done had they had no directives from management--a standalone game using a streamlined version of the D&D rules, set in the WotL or post-WotL era. However, I think a confluence of numerous issues has made WotC even less inclined to do something with DL than they otherwise would be.

 

[delericho]

The Prism Pentad rerelease was probably a primping the pump for DS at fairly low cost, and taking advantage of the fact that Troy Denning is now a fairly big name in SF due to his role as a key author on recent Star Wars novels.

Even if they'd only rereleased the first novel, which pretty much takes us to the start of the new setting books, that would have been better. Still, I suppose they'd might as well sell five novels instead of one.

I'd be inclined to go back to what some members of the Fifth Age team would have done had they had no directives from management--a standalone game using a streamlined version of the D&D rules, set in the WotL or post-WotL era.

That would be awesome.