Dragonlance 4e in 2010?

[Mouseferatu]

And keep the PoL cosmology away from Athas!

I keep seeing this, but...

Part of Athas' schtick was that it was isolated from other planes. The only planar connections, IIRC, were elemental. And for those purposes, the Elemental Chaos works just as well as four separate elemental planes.

So really, why does it matter what cosmology may exist beyond Athas, if Athas can't reach it and isn't affected by it?

 

[wedgeski]

I can't find any evidence that Wizards said that Dragonlance would be handled in 3e. However, I can find evidence that Dragonlance was explicitly stated to not receive support 4 months after 3e's launch (December 2000, Jim Butler), and it was another year or two before SP picked up the license.

Purely because I spent an inordinate amount of time waiting for an over-full kettle to boil last night while thinking about this, I can assure you that it was. I can visualise in my head right now the Wizards web page which broke the news, but I can't find it anywhere.

 

[Dragonhelm]

As for DL being a point of light setting, not in the traditional sense.

What traditional sense? Points of light is still a new concept, so there hasn't been any time to establish a tradition. Perhaps WotC wants to expand how we define points of light.

The settings hasn´t even been announced and the whining how it is going to be ruined is already starting? Bah! I want Dragonlance, and i want a creative re-imagination! Smash it to pieces and set it together anew! No chaos war crap, no half-hearted continuing of the storyline ("events this summer: Draconian army 34 moves from A to B"). Be creative and agressive about it - i don´t need "slightly changed classic dragonlance." I own that already.

While I have an obvious bias towards the work MWP has done with Dragonlance, I do think that maybe now is the time for some new direction with Dragonlance - so long as it is true to the setting. I don't think we need another Cataclysm, but perhaps some new villains would be nice.

The Abyss as something more than the CE plane? Check!

All that Dragonlance would really need to do is explain away tieflings (not hard) and the PHB is good out the door!

As a bonus: DL would bring Wizard of High Sorcery Paragon Paths, Knight of Solomnia Paragon, Handler Paragon Path, and a bunch of cool stuff.

The Abyss in Dragonlance is not the same as the traditional D&D Abyss. Tieflings already exist in Dragonlance, per Price of Courage.

I would caution, though, against making the 3e PrCs into paragon paths. Wizards should already be WoHS well before they reach paragon levels. I think we can use base classes and provide some nifty powers based on organizations for characters to take.


I'll try to reply more in a bit. Certainly, you guys have a lot to say where Dragonlance is concerned!

 

[lrsach01]

1) Takhisis and Paladine died
2) Mina replaced both Paladine & Takhisis as goddess of good and evil simultaneously
3) Shinare replaced Paladine as one of the patrons of the Knights of Solamnia. Shinare is the neutral goddess of trade.
4) The head of the white robes made a magical roofie for the leader of the Knights of Solamnia to get the girl he wanted.
5) Krynn was stolen and put in a new galaxy, where the gods couldn't find it.
6) After the discovery of gunpowder, people had working battlefield guns within a couple years.

A bit out of order and these things didn't happen all at once, but the essentials are correct. The thing is... Dragonlance during 3E became a more vibrant setting with stories possible OUTSIDE the original 12 modules. Who REALLY wants to play through the War of the Lance OVER AND OVER again (yeah.. I bought the updated versions... sure me). The Tahkisis, Paladine, Mina thing was done to correct/readjust the whole SAGA/5th Age changes that were in effect... not perfect, but not really BAD. The Solamnic Emperor story made the THAT part of the world interesting again. And the gunpowder stuff is concentrated in the hands of a couple of dwarves and gnomes and can EASILY be gotten rid of by some judicious murders.

Complaining about stories doesn't really lead any where. Do what you want! Hell's Bells! Do you think Ed Greenwood obeys the "official" story line of the Forgotten Realms? He's SAID he doesn't! His gaming group's PCs have never heard of Maztica, Kara-tur, or Al-qadim. Use what you want and discard the rest. THAT is the coolest thing about role-playing in general and DnD specifically!

 

[qstor]

Oh great, another setting is getting butchered.
Especially DL doesn't really work with 4E as it has a civilized, if slightly ravaged from war, society and doesn't focus so much on superawesomeheroes with uberleet powerz.

Its more so that they try and shoehorn 4e general stuff into each setting. So now there's tieflings and dragonborn in Dragonlance and the magic system could not revolve around the cycles of Krynn's moons.

Bill Slavicsek has said that each WOTC 4e setting was going to be for 'general' D&D. Dragonlance has a lot of differences that translate into rules mechanic's and if you totally ignore that then yes Dragonlance will get butchered in 4e.

Mike

 

[ferratus]

A bit out of order and these things didn't happen all at once, but the essentials are correct. The thing is... Dragonlance during 3E became a more vibrant setting with stories possible OUTSIDE the original 12 modules.

I'll agree there, but through the release of the sourcebooks. Particularly the War of the Lance sourcebook.

Who REALLY wants to play through the War of the Lance OVER AND OVER again (yeah.. I bought the updated versions... sure me).

See that's what really bugs me. Dragonlance fans were frustrated for 10 years where the only books released were prequels of the WotL, and no modules were released. So when they finally did advance the storyline, any criticism of that storyline is seen as wanting to return to the previous way the brand was managed badly. That's a false dichotomy.

I'm perfectly fine with the generational move a couple of times, and new villains, creatures, plotlines etc. What I dislike are ideas that are really bad and damage the brand's enjoyability. The 5 I mentioned are the really big sins of the current batch of novels. The 5th Age stinker ideas have largely been cleaned up, and most of the bad prequel novels have been declared non-canonical. These ideas likewise, should be ashcanned or retconned in some way.

The Solamnic Emperor story made the THAT part of the world interesting again. And the gunpowder stuff is concentrated in the hands of a couple of dwarves and gnomes and can EASILY be gotten rid of by some judicious murders.

I don't mind the Solamnic Emperor (though I prefer Solamnia as a collection of city states with a common culture and knighthood), nor do I mind the introduction of gunpowder to the setting. I just think the storyline was really bad. Have the Order of the White Robes impeached by her fellow members of the conclave, or have her punished for lying about her alignment and all is good again. Some consequences for the Solamnic leader for being a murderer and a rapist at the hands of some real Solamnic Knights would be good too.

Complaining about stories doesn't really lead any where. Do what you want! Hell's Bells! Do you think Ed Greenwood obeys the "official" story line of the Forgotten Realms? He's SAID he doesn't! His gaming group's PCs have never heard of Maztica, Kara-tur, or Al-qadim. Use what you want and discard the rest. THAT is the coolest thing about role-playing in general and DnD specifically!

True, but if they are going to release a Campaign Setting Guide without a plot reboot, I'll undoubtedly just buy the Player's Guide with the rules information.

The only question is which side of the dragonlance fanbase is bigger. Those that like the storylines and setting changes since WotL, or those that hate them? Would those that accept the changes still buy a Campaign Guide that cleaved more closely to the classic dragonlance campaign world?

 

[The Little Raven]

It's definitely a work in progress—I've had some good feedback from the fans over at the Dragonlance forums already.

I checked it out, and a lot of it looks pretty good to me. I'm concerned about the half-dwarf being slightly more powerful than the regular PHB dwarf, and I think the kender taunt is a bit too powerful, especially because of the sustain capability.

One thought I had was to make it an immediate reaction when an enemy adjacent to you starts its turn, and if you hit, you force it to make a melee basic attack against you (thereby burning it's standard action, and not allowing the use of powers, except ones that count as basics).

 

[Cam Banks]

I'm perfectly fine with the generational move a couple of times, and new villains, creatures, plotlines etc. What I dislike are ideas that are really bad and damage the brand's enjoyability. The 5 I mentioned are the really big sins of the current batch of novels.

To be fair, it does sound as if you've only read the Solamnic trilogy, which is the one that's had the most controversy surrounding it. You would need to read the others, especially Rick Knaak's ogre titans and Paul and Tonya's Elven Exiles, to get a better picture of what the 10-year-period is supposed to cover.

Very little of the books in the past three or four years are going to be retconned or thrown out. I suspect it will get evened out and made more consistent, if it's covered in any detail, but I wouldn't want to leap into the realm of hypotheses.

And as to what the fan base really wants? I don't think you're going to find that out by reading online message boards.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[The Little Raven]

-Kender vs. Halflings: I think there are some pretty significant differences... the resistances to fear, their taunting ability, racial weapon (hoopak!).

Did you miss that halflings have a +5 bonus to saving throws against fear effects?

 

[Ares]

Right. It's terrible when folks who've been fans of the setting since the beginning get together with many of the setting's creators and authors and, with oversight from the owners of the setting's IP, develop the setting further and with consistency. That never turns out well.

Cheers,
Cam

If that's what happened then it'd be super. And if it ever does happen that way, you come and let me know. 'Cuz then I'll be asking for a job!


See, having affectionados or well-wishers in the creative process is fine, but it's the hardcore types that won't resist the opportunity to make their mark in the canon. As Kevin Smith said on writing Daredevil after Frank Miller, "It's one thing to wear your Dad's shoes, it's quite another to f*** your Mom".
But fanon is not canon, it is fanon, and, at best, Expanded Universe. Apocryphal.